TGCI 140: Microsoft Engineer & a Note investor w/ Kevin.

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Episode 140: Microsoft Engineer & a Note investor w/ Kevin.

Copy of EP #18 - 2 Guests


In today’s show, Pancham interviews Kevin Galang – note investor, Senior Technical Specialist at Microsoft, and host of the Tech Guys Who Invest Podcast and The Note Nuggets Podcast.

Living the American dream is far more than what he imagined when he and his family migrated to the US. He thought a corporate job and having a 401k plan is enough when he realized that generating other income streams and taking control of your own financial success is the way to go!

From discovering his niche in investing in mortgage notes, he continues to share his passion to educate other aspiring investors and make other’s debt into their income! In this episode, Kevin will also share everything that you need to know about note investing. From the overview of note investing, its benefits, and to its red flags, this episode is surely jam-packed with golden nuggets!


Listen and enjoy the show!

Pancham Gupta
Screen Shot 2021-07-02 at 9.45.48 AM
Kevin Galang

Tune in to this show and enjoy!

Copy of Quote #00 - 1 Guest

Timestamped Shownotes:

  • 0:41 – Pancham introduces Kevin to the show
  • 2:36 – How an argument with his girlfriend got him into investing
  • 8:51 – Pros and cons to look out for when investing in notes
  • 14:46 – 3 main ways to get a head start in your note investing career
  • 17:30 – How to pick the ideal note investment for you (and things that you should consider!)
  • 22:28 – On investing in a niche market to stand out from others
  • 24:27 – On his achievements and what he wants to accomplish next
  • 28:13 – His unique morning routine that helps him focus for the whole day
  • 31:39 – Taking the Leap Round
  • 31:39 – His first investment outside of Wall Street
  • 33:19 – Overcoming his fears of uncertainty
  • 34:13 – Lessons learned from his investment that didn’t work out
  • 35:21 – How small investing decisions can make a huge impact
  • 36:08 – Where you can get a copy of his reports and eBook

3 Key Points:

  1. Note investing has a lot of benefits but it can be also seen as tax-burdening since it can be considered as a depreciation asset.
  2. Network with other note investors, either virtually or in-person, so you can have a better idea and have access to information on how it works.
  3. Figure out the type of note investor that you would want to be so you would know what kind of notes you would invest in.

Get in Touch:


Read Full Transcript


Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast with your host, Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams. Here’s your host, Pancham Gupta.

Hi, this is Russell Gray, co-host of The Real Estate Guys radio show and you are listening to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast.


Pancham Gupta: Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. This is your host, Pancham. Really appreciate you for tuning in today. Let’s get into today’s show. My guest today is Kevin. He is an engineer and works at Microsoft and technical sales. Kevin’s parents emigrated to this country from the Philippines, and he was raised with this thought in mind that all debt is bad. And saving into 401k is the way to go. He changed his perspective completely after his girlfriend changed his mind.  A bit about Kevin. Kevin is passionate about three things; living abundantly, personal development and convincing people that the American Dream is really more of a nightmare. While currently working in tech sales. Kevin focuses on investing in mortgage notes while helping other busy professionals turn other people’s debt into income for their savings or IRAs through public speaking at webinars and local real estate meetups. Kevin believes that you cannot save your way into financial security. Investing is a must. When Kevin isn’t working for his nine to five or working on his real estate business, he is most likely eating, doing something active or reading a book on personal development. Hey, Kevin, welcome to the show.


Kevin: Pancham, I am excited to be here. We loved having you on our show, The Tech Guys Who Invest Podcast so it’s nice to be on yours and talk about investing as well. 


Pancham Gupta: Absolutely. It was so much fun talking to you on the podcast, you, and Adam. And you guys have great show. And you know, it’s always fun to connect with engineers. And so, before we get started, are you ready to fire up my listener break out of Wall Street investments?


Kevin: Yes, I am ready., I’m ready to bring the energy, I’m ready to talk about different ways you can become a Gold Collar investor outside of Wall Street taking control of your own financial success.


Pancham Gupta: Love that, love that. So, Kevin, tell our listeners about your background, and more importantly, the person behind that background.


Kevin: So, when it comes to my background, my background is similar to a lot of people, I’m sure that your listeners are in the same space. So, my parents immigrated from the Philippines in the 80s. I was born in the US, you know, I’ve never made it to the Philippines, I really want to go, I’ll get there, that’ll probably be one of those financial freedom destinations. I’ll get there. My parents worked super hard to put us through school, my siblings and I, my two siblings and I, and it was always that American dream, get a college degree, then you get a good job, then you get a house, and you invest in your 401k. And that was it. And then I started learning about financial education through an argument with my girlfriend, because I thought you know, I thought that if you just invest in a 401k, climb the corporate ladder, we’re gonna be all right. And then she said, no, we need multiple streams of income. That’s just the way wealthy people do it. And I was like, nah, nah, nah, you’re wrong. Well, I conceded. I was like, Alright, well,


Pancham Gupta: that’s why you’re happy man.


Kevin: Let me, let me just assume you’re right. Let me do my research. Turns out she was 100%. right. She’s definitely the smarter one in the relationship. So, I looked into it. What are ways you can generate side income or other streams of income in real estate kept popping up. And then you dive into, and you realize real estate is a great retirement tool as well. So even if you’re not like you and I completely active and 100% in real estate kind of thing. It’s still a great way to diversify for a number of reasons, which I’m sure your listeners are familiar with. And when I was in the real estate space, I decided to kind of do more research because it intrigued me. And I bounced around. I looked at short term rentals at the time, I looked at mobile home parks, I looked at house hacking, there were just so many things I looked at until I found out about note investing and becoming the bank. I heard a podcast on Bigger Pockets where the guest was talking about you can be a real estate investor without owning a single door. I was like wait, wait, wait, how does that actually work? And he was talking about how you can become the bank just like Wells Fargo just on the smaller scale right not operated in the billions at all. So, you can become the bank and own somebodies mortgage, and you get all the benefits of bank does. But you don’t have to worry about headaches, a landlord does, no maintenance, no tenant turnover. It’s just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, blew my mind. So outside of being a sales engineer at Microsoft, I am focused on investing in mortgages, primarily myself and the investors that I work with. Outside of investing, I’m really a passionate educator and I believe in abundance. So, if I’m learning something, I’m sharing it with the world, which is why I have The Tech Guys Who Invest Podcasts which I cohost with Adam Ulery, who we had you on our show. And I also have a podcast dedicated specifically to note investing, because it’s a little bit different than multifamily or single family. What’s different about it is a multifamily complex and apartment, you could see somebody posts a picture, and you can envision, oh, yeah, I can own a part of that, that just makes sense. You can go travel to this apartment complex, you’re part of a syndication of right, you can touch it, you can look at it, you can smell it, I mean, you could taste it, too. But, you know, with COVID, it’s probably not a good idea. But with mortgages and buying debt, it’s not as intuitive. So, what I was struggled with at the beginning, I wanted to basically teach my newer investor self. And I take note investing and break it down into really digestible nuggets. So that each time somebody listens to a podcast, you’re like, oh, now I know what to notice. Or now I know what a contract for deed is. So that’s how I kind of broke that down. And this, wanting to be an educator just comes from loving to share, right, I have no problem sharing things. I’m not the most competitive person, if we can all succeed, I’m gonna find a way to do that. And I think that’s where that passion comes from, to share with others. long winded story of my background, but it’s there.


Pancham Gupta: Absolutely no, thank you for sharing that I can already tell that you’re going to have a very long lasting relationship with because of you listening here. Can’t really complain that you know, you don’t listen. So obviously, you took the jump, and now you’re on the other side with her. So, you know, with note investing, I think you have put it very nicely that with other hard assets, you can pause, you can feel, touch, feel, and those, you know, see those things. But with note investing, you just have a note, it’s a piece of paper, right? Just like banks, when you get a mortgage, the mortgage is your liability, but it’s an asset to the bank. And the bank actually just has a note. And just as a piece of paper, which they can sell it to another bank or people like you who can own those notes, and then you know, get the payment from the person who is making the payments, right. So that’s one huge difference. And then other difference, I guess, is that you don’t have to worry about any of the stuff that landlords have to worry about. But on the flip side, you don’t have the upside on some of the real estate goes up 100% you don’t get any of that, right. So yeah, you know, I want to dive into some of that as well. But first, I want to kind of congratulate you to land a new job, you know, with Microsoft. And I know you’re just starting there. So, congrats on that. And you know, a lot of people have a lot of friends at Microsoft and definitely have seen the turnaround story and absolutely love the company. So great. Cool. So, can you dive into that? 


Kevin: Thank you for that. 


Pancham Gupta: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, can you dive into more differences between a note, and you know, a note investing someone who’s listening to this for the first time, and they’re trying to get their head around it? What are the benefits of investing in the note? What are the negatives of investing in the note?


Kevin: Sure. So, note investing, you’re right about that the best way to describe it is if you’ve ever financed something, you’ve kind of in the note business, you’re just the borrower. So, if you’ve financed a rental, you finance your primary residence, you’re paying somebody who’s lending you money to buy that to make that initial purchase, right, you pay them monthly. Now think about it from the other side, that bank just gets that principal and interest each month. That’s what they get. That’s what they’re banking on and no pun intended. That’s that monthly cash flow without any of the worry that a landlord does. If you think about it, when you own your house and you have a leaky roof, you’re not going to go call Citibank who has whoever as your mortgage is, hey, my roof is leaking. We like, why are you calling us right? We don’t care about that. It’s not even anything that they can, they can do. That’s your responsibility as the owner of the property, the bank just owns the debt and you’ve signed a contract saying, hey, I will pay you each month, let’s say $1,000 a month, for the next 30 years that’s in contract that’s in writing. And if I don’t, then you can take my property, that is the power of the lender, right? That’s how they protect themselves by having it associated with the property. Now you can buy unsecured debt, like people by credit card debt and student loan debt. But for me, that’s a bit risky, because if they don’t pay, what am I supposed to do, right? It’s not something I’m interested in. So, I always try to focus on secured debt. And there are multiple layers, you can get first position, second position. Third, it can go kind of into the weeds. But I focus primarily on first position, because that offers the most protection. Just like if you have your mortgage with Citibank, you know, they’re first in line kind of thing to get paid.


Pancham Gupta: Right. So, what are some of the negatives? Like, I know, like we shared one of them, which is the equity upside. Are there any other things that you would mention, as far as what you think is a negative?


Kevin: Yes. So, when we’re thinking of the negative, that equity piece is actually really important, right? The stability of the note investing is a big thing for certain investors, you know, you’re legally allowed to get that $1,000 a month, the borrower agree to whether the price of the house skyrockets, right, they will still pay you $1,000 a month. And even if the price of the house plummets, and that goes technically underwater, they are still legally obliged to pay you the $1,000 a month. So, there’s that aspect, but the negative of it, like we said, if that property, shoots up in appreciation by 100%, whatever the number may be, as the note investor, you don’t get any benefits directly other than more equity protection, right, because now, you know that the, there are a couple of reasons, the borrower if they were to default, for whatever reason, you know, 2020 showed us that almost no jobs are safe, right? Crazy year. So, the borrower could stop paying. But as the lender if the house appreciates, that’s more protection that you have, for a couple of reasons. The borrower may want to keep that equity if they’ve been investing and living in it for so long. And I recently heard that the average equity was somewhere in the six figures, right. So, if a homeowner has that much equity, there’s a pretty high chance they’re not going to want to leave. Yeah, so you can work with the borrower to come to a resolution and that’s the power of being blender, but we can touch on that later. And to your point, the negative is of that is with the house appreciating the property appreciating, you can’t charge more, right? Like with a multifamily it’s based off of the income the property is generating, right. So, you get an appraisal or whatever, and you refi out, you’re showing that you can charge more for the rent, and you can sell it at a higher price, right? The note doesn’t really apply that way, it doesn’t matter what the property goes up or down, you’re kind of stuck with the contract that you signed with the borrower. Another negative aspect is there’s no depreciation, you can’t claim any of that, in fact, the interest that you will get taxed on as the lender is going to get taxed as ordinary income. And which is why I’m a huge advocate of using a self-directed IRA, and a self-directed IRA. If you do it within a Roth, it’s tax free. So, you can make a 12% yield on your note over 30 years, and it’s all tax free, that money that comes back to you is tax free. And the beauty of it also is notes can be a long term play for a performing note perspective because if you buy somebody’s position to be the bank, and they have 10 years or 20 years left of payments, that’s a long time, right? And that can kind of a lot of people see that as I don’t know if I want my money out for that long. But if it’s in a self-directed IRA, you know, kind of what else are you doing with it, it’s sitting there, it’s generating cash flow, it is making money for you make your money’s making money for you. And it’s a great way of looking at it. I would say another downside to note investing is it’s technically a depreciating asset. Yeah, what I mean by that is the highest amount of money is the whatever the unpaid principal balances. So, if you buy a note on day one of the origination because some banks will originate and then sell it off, that will be the highest price, the note is going to be, right and because each month the borrower is going to continue to pay until there’s nothing left. So that is a is a downside to note investing is that there’s the tax burden, if you will, and the depreciation aspect.


Pancham Gupta: Got it. Cool. So, in terms of let’s say, I listen to this, Kevin, and it’s amazing. I don’t want to deal with the tenants, toilets, termites, all that. So, I get motivated, and I want to kind of go out and buy a note. What will I have to do? Is there a website? Like what? What’s the solution here? Like, I know I can buy a single family, I can go to Zillow and Redfin right or, or even apartments, I can find a broker. What happens in the note world?


Kevin: In the note world, there are actually a couple of things you can do, there’s a website that I would recommend, it’s called paper stack, p a p e, r, s, t So, think a stack of paper, but without the K paper stack calm. And there, they have a platform where you can actually buy notes from sellers directly. And let’s say you’re not in the market to buy, it gives you an idea to look at what numbers are presented to you how to analyze the note it’s a great exercise. Similar to what you would do is Zillow, right, you see a duplex, triplex whatever, you’ll start crunching those numbers to see whether or not the seller is asking for way too much money, which they probably are. And if it’s going to cash flow, the same holds true with the note, I highly recommend going there to just get your toes wet to see what’s in the market. The best way I would, in my opinion is to network, network with investors, whether that’s virtually, whether that’s in person, networking with investors, that can be also from LinkedIn. One thing I know for certain, in my experience is that investors love to let you know that they are an investor, they’ll put it everywhere, social media, they’ll put it on LinkedIn, I do it, I’m guilty of it, too. That’s why I think it’s funny. So, you can type in a note investor on LinkedIn, and it will pull up hundreds of people that are note investors. And you can send them a note when you connect, but I highly recommend you don’t just hit the connect button, send them a note, send them a personalized note saying maybe hey, I checked out your website interested in learning about notes, or heard you on The Gold Collar Investor Podcast, you know, love to connect with you to learn more. Those are great ways to get access to inventory that investors have and potentially get notes. Because another thing about investors is they always have assets to buy and sell. They’re always looking to buy something they always have something to sell as far as assets go. So, LinkedIn, Paper Sack those are networking, whether virtual or in person are the three main ways I recommend people finding notes, especially if you’re just starting out.


Pancham Gupta: Okay, great. So, I’m actually while we were chatting, I actually went to the website and never heard a Fed because some might never been into notes. But so, let’s say I look at one looks very interesting. And I click on that, oh, this is great. 145,000, less fries, data. Like, what do I need to now be wary of when I’m looking at it? Like is there? I know this could be a whole can of worms, I don’t want to go into like keeping an eye level, very, very high level like, you know, look at this listing, it’s 145,00 loan to value 77% it’s performing total payoff is 140. You know, 145,000, 12% interest rate, I love that. It’s in Texas, single family home. They have a Zillow price here. All of that is there, right? So, what do I need to look at? Looks interesting to me, I like 12%.


Kevin: So, the first thing you have to consider is if it’s performing or not, there’s performing notes and there’s nonperforming notes.,  A performing note is when the borrower is making their payments consistently each month, that means that they’re paying their mortgage and they’re up to date, all of those good things, that’s the cash flow that you’re looking for. The other side of that is nonperforming. That means the borrower isn’t paying for whatever reason, usually, it’s a combination of things or could just be they lost a job, medical emergency death and a family whatever the case may be, that means they’re not paying. And you have to ask yourself, which one do you want to buy? A performing note is going to produce cash flow as soon as the next month that you buy that note, because you’re now the new lender, but you’re not going to get as much of a yield. But it’s as passive as it can be. When you’re the bank, there’s really nothing to worry about, right? the borrower is just going to pay and assuming everything goes well, you’re just going to collect that money. A nonperforming note is a little bit trickier. Because you’re buying into a problem. That problem might be the borrower lost their job, or they I’ve heard of an instance where it was they got hurt on the job, right and they were no longer able to work. disability was taking some time that they had to go through court processes and all that stuff to prove that they were actually disabled from work and that they could collect disability to pay their mortgage. So, there are instances like that you’re buying into a problem, which is even riskier. The advantage of non-performing notes, generally speaking, is you buy at a significant discount. So, for that 145 note, maybe it goes for, I don’t know, 70,000 half of the price of what it is now. And you look at that as a nonperforming note investor in a couple of ways. Alright, how much is the property worth. And I do this for performing notes too, because the property’s value as a first position, mortgage investor is really the largest safety net. Because if I take it back, I can sell it as is. And that’s that that equity, the loan to value is kind of my profit zone. So, the nonperforming note, that’s one way to make money, the other would be through the borrower getting them re performing again, because remember, you bought it at such a low discount, if you’re buying a nonperforming, that you have room to figure out what strategy works for you, whether that’s working with the borrower, whether that’s foreclosing on them, and then selling it, turning it into a rental, whatever you want it to be. So that’s the first strategy is figure out what type of note investor you want to become, then I look at the equity of the property is there enough in there for myself and my investors to eat off of if we have to sell, and then I look at a lot of different things, but the interest rate of the note is huge. And one thing that if you’re listening to this, and assuming you’re going to be new, you’ll see interest rate, but you’ll also hear yield. So, the interest rate is what the lender is charging the borrower, right. So, if you sign the mortgage and the interest rate, let’s say it’s 3%, that’s just what it is today, or something like that. The yield is what the investor is going to make on the money. Because generally speaking, you will buy a note at a discount. So, if the lender is charging the borrower 8% interest, you’re not going to make 8%, you’ll buy it at a discount, and then turn that 8% into a 10 or 12% with the discount that you buy it at. And that’s how you kind of almost as if you’re forcing the appreciation of a property, you’re forcing the yield of a note that way.


Pancham Gupta: Got it. Got it. That’s pretty cool, actually. And you know, there is a lot to this guys. You know, you can go to the rabbit trail and rabbit hole and really learn a lot more. It’s a fascinating field. I myself have looked into it a long time back, but never really spent time to really learn at London nitty gritty. So, I want to ask you, Kevin, like, you know, you and Adam, you guys are pretty big in multifamily. You invest there and all that. So, what kind of made you tell us about the time like what when he actually decided to do note investing? What was it about it that you did not or that’s not the right question. The question would be that, was there anything missing in multifamily that you were searching for in the in land looking for in the other asset class? Or what is it that kind of lead you towards note investing?


Kevin: So, I there’s a ton of benefits to multifamily investing. And one of the main driving factors for me is I wanted to stand out. And my thought process, there was a couple of reasons. If everybody’s doing multifamily, then it’s almost as if, oh, I’m just another multifamily investor. But with note investing, there weren’t as many in the space because it’s just a very niche market. So that was an automatic way for me to stand out. And I thought it could be interesting to be the bank. So, I kind of just was like, oh, almost every podcast I was listening to at the time when I started was multifamily, multifamily. So great. Let me see what else is out there. And I learned about notes. And it just kind of one of those things that you know, you want to be in when you hear it, you look into it, it just kind of calls to you. And that was the transition that I made that I’d made the decision to say, you know what, it’ll set me apart. First of all, it’s different than what a lot of other people are doing. And there’s so many more benefits to it, like we just discussed, so let me explore it, because it just sounds so interesting to me.


Pancham Gupta: Great. And then you got hooked now. 


Kevin: Exactly. 


Pancham Gupta: I did a podcast. So that’s cool, man. Cool. So, I want to ask you like last two questions before we move on to the next section of the show, which I call in the leap round. My next question here is, what is one goal that you are really proud of accomplishing in the last six to 12 months and going forward? What is one thing that you are uncomfortable with and most inspired by that you’re working towards now?


Kevin: So, one goal that I accomplished when I started investing six to 12 months ago, heavily was using other people’s money and growing up.  It wasn’t something the idea of using leverage wasn’t the big thing that was talked about, usually it’s like, oh, stay out of debt. It’s bad for you. But it’s in the context of like credit cards, right? Or, oh, I have to pay my mortgage each month, that’s a pain. Now we could talk about how primary residence is probably not an investment, but that’s probably different podcasts. So, growing up, and hearing that debt is bad, or that kind of thing. It’s like, okay, that has a poor taste in my mouth, I had to kind of remove that conditional, that conditional upbringing, if you will, And the idea of using some, so I always thought I had to buy notes with just my money, I had to invest with just my money, then I learned, you can use other people’s money, that there are people that want to be investors  also, they just don’t know what to do. So, the getting that first deal of using somebody else’s money, it was like, oh, wow, this is possible. That’s the proof of concept. And you have no money into the deal as the active investor, and you get some cash flow, that’s an infinite return. So, I’m really proud of the fact that I was able to get for myself get enough of those, and you hit kind of the exit velocity, right?


Pancham Gupta: Banks do that all the time for last 100 years, you know, 


Kevin: Exactly.


Pancham Gupta: They lend the same money out and even more than that, and they make the interest.


Kevin: So, I don’t need the billions of dollars, I don’t need that. Not at all, it’s not what I’m aiming for just enough to like to achieve financial freedom. And then I think the second part of that was what goal am I looking for I’m inspired by. One thing that I’m looking into, and actively doing is seller financing, and buying those notes that are on the market. So, a very high level of seller financing for your listeners, let’s say you own your primary residence outright, that you have 100% equity, and you go buy another house to live in, maybe you’re downsizing, whatever, you don’t need the four bedroom that you can raise the family. And so, you have that house 100% equity, you can then sell it, what they call seller financing. So, a buyer will come to you and say, hey, I want to buy your house, but I don’t want to go to a bank, they may not qualify for a loan, or they just don’t like using a bank’s money, whatever the case may be. So, they’ll pay you the 20% down. And then you finance that 80% you get to collect that principal and interest each month, you don’t have to worry about land lording, right, because you are the lender, that new homebuyer is the homeowner. And I’m looking to buy those notes from those if they call a mom and pop the small time type of seller finance deals. So, I’m excited about that. I sent my first mailer I think two weeks ago, and just seeing testing the water. Because for me, also I love, I’ve been studying a lot of marketing. And it’s just such an interesting thing to me, the way we communicate, the specific words we use, and the phrases that stick with people, all of that just kind of is really resonating with me at the moment. So, I’m excited to do that. And my goal is to just get one for the year. Because there are people, if I can get access to one of those types of notes, there are buyers that are saying, oh, actually, I want to be that lender. So, I’m really, really looking forward to the progress on that.


Pancham Gupta: Good luck with that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So, my last question before we move on to the next section of the show is what is your morning routine If you have any that you follow? And do you think that attributes to your success?


Kevin: I would say, yes, I love a morning routine and I’m a big proponent of it. One thing I would say is you have to make your morning routine unique to you. There are some frameworks out there that I think are great places to start. But you’ll find what works best for you. For me, I start with meditation. And I tried to do just like a silent meditation, and really focused on letting the thoughts come in and just recognizing them and just letting them pass. And that’s specific to me something that I think is most beneficial to me. And then I journal, I write three things that I’m grateful for some affirmations about what I’m committed to, and who I am as a person. And then I just journal kind of what thoughts I have in my head. And it really helps kind of empty the cup for the day. After that I’ll work out of some kind, whether that’s stretching, or maybe run in the morning. And then I read something whether it’s personal development, usually business. And that’s how I kind of start my day doing that. And for me, it really helps, it’s like anchoring, and make sure that I’m focused, I then know, okay, my brain is clear. Let’s figure out how to attack the day the best way possible. I highly recommend a morning routine. It’s, It’s huge. And it doesn’t have to be as gargantuan as mine. Or if you will. Maybe that’s just meditating for five minutes. I try to aim for 15 or a few right journaling can just be hey, this is what I’m thinking about today. But it’s huge exercise in the mindfulness because that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re recognized. What’s in your mind? And for me that helps because it creates the gap. When I’m presented with a situation, I have am working on the ability to say, oh, I’m not just reacting. I’m thinking, how do I want to react? So that applies to every facet of life. And it will save you tons of money. It will save you arguments, it will save you from doing all that just being a little bit more mindful.


Pancham Gupta: Great advice. I, I follow the similar routine, savers routine from American morning. Yeah. So that’s great. Thank you for that. We’ll be back after this message… Have you ever wondered why the rich keep getting richer? What is the secret that they know but you do not? What if I told you that wealthy people make their money work for them in two different places? Yes, the same dollars invested into different places, and working hard for them while they sleep. They utilize these special accounts that have been in existence for more than 100 years. Do you want to learn more about these accounts, then you are in the right place? Listen to the episode number five by going to show, I repeat, thegoldcollarinvestor show or visit… So, Kevin, this is the second part of the show, which I call taking the leap round and ask these four questions to every guest on the show. My first question for you is, when was the first time you invested outside of Wall Street?


Kevin: The first time I invested at a Wall Street was the first time I realized my 401k wasn’t really my money. So, I worked at Oracle for the first five years of my career. And I was pretty diligent about maxing out as best I could. And I got a nice chunk of change there. When I left to go to another company, that company at the time didn’t have a 401k. So, I called fidelity and said, hey, I want to use this as a down payment for a rental property that I’m looking to buy. They said, well, because you’re not in our payroll anymore, you can’t use that money. What do you mean, I can’t use my own money that I’ve saved up for like, well, it’s through the employer. So, you couldn’t use that the only options you have are to withdraw it, which would mean I get a penalty, or you roll it over. And because I didn’t have a 401k with that company. So, what are my other options, I learned about a self-directed IRA. So, I said, forget it, you know what I’m gonna do this on my own. So, I took that money out, had it in my self-directed IRA. And then through some networking, I was able to originate some notes. So, I had investors that needed money. They had properties where they had tons of equity, that I was comfortable and being in a second position. And I will typically be in first position. But sometimes when the numbers make sense, it just, you got to do the due. So, I did that, struck when the iron was hot and that was the first time I originated three notes in my self-directed IRA. They’re all performing, and I’m just hooked. Now it’s like okay, now I got to find more notes to buy.


Pancham Gupta: Great. So, did you have any fears that you had to overcome?


Kevin: Huge fear. The fear is, it’s a double edged sword to have a self-directed IRA, you have full control into what you want to invest in outside of a couple of different things, life insurance and collectibles. But a lot of things are fair game, real estate, multifamily syndications ,notes, whatever the case may be, you can really invest in it. But that means that the success and failure are at my own hands. So, the idea of, oh, I could lose all my money, and it would be my fault. It’s kind of a scary thought. So that fear and thinking, do I really know what I’m doing when I’m doing this?


Pancham Gupta: Always as to you know, you always have those thoughts, and it’s just overcoming them and really taking that first step and that’s what matter is taking that action. 


Kevin: Exactly. 


Pancham Gupta: So cool, man, cool. My third question, can you share with us one investment that did not go as expected?


Kevin: Yeah, so there was a recent investment where I bought a note with partner, they funded the note, and I was getting a little bit of like a fee for kind of putting it all together. What I didn’t realize is what the true net expenses were. So, there was, I miss read some things, it was, I just overlooked the detail. In that, I basically was committed to making sure that they got their return, so I refunded my fee because I had messed up. And that just felt only right like that. You know that you trust me with the responsibility of making sure all the i’s are dotted and all the T’s are crossed, which I did. So, it was a huge learning expense, and to listen listeners out there, whether it’s multifamily or single family, short term rental, be, I say extra conservative with the expenses, make sure you, you look at all the expenses possible and make sure the math makes sense to do the deal.


Pancham Gupta: Great,  you know you do these things, and you learn these are real world lessons. So, my last question for you is, what is one piece of advice would you give to people who are thinking of investing in main street that is outside of Wall Street?


Kevin: Action doesn’t have to be a big swing for a home run. It could be something as simple as reaching out to myself, if you’re curious about note investing, reach out to Pancham if you want to learn more about multifamily investing, go to a meetup, where you learn something new, because those little actions are going to build up to that big mountain of freedom that you’re really looking to get. But you can’t do it if you’re idle. So just take some kind of action. Give yourself a pat on the back. We’re taking the action be your biggest motivator, and it will work out.


Pancham Gupta: Great, Cool, Kevin. So, it’s been ton of fun. I know if we have two great podcasts and also you’ve put together two reports for the listeners. And can you tell us what those reports are and how can the listeners get those?  Yes, so from The Tech Guys Who Invest Podcasts, we’ve interviewed tons of guests. And we created an E book kind of gathering their insights as to what they the advice that they would give them their younger investor selves. So, if you want to get that, that is the, all you have to do is send me an email at And the other book that I have is a note investing book, which you sent me that and it talks about why homeowners, like seller finance are looking to sell their notes why they have notes, and it breaks down how note investing really works. So go ahead and send me an email to get that eBook as well.  Great. Thank you Kevin for that and thank you for your time today. 


Kevin: Thanks for having me on the show, Pancham.


Pancham Gupta: Thank you for listening. Do email at if you want those two great PDFs that been put together by Kevin. Thank you for listening ,really appreciate you. If you have questions, don’t hesitate to email me at p as in Paul @the  This is Pancham signing off. Until next time, take care.

Thank you for listening to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of Pancham Gupta, visit us at www.thegoldcollar and follow us on Facebook @thegoldcollarinvestor. The information on this podcast are opinions.  As always, please consult your own financial team before investing.

Copy of EP #18 - 2 Guests

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