Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast with your host, Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams. Here’s your host, Pancham Gupta.

Hey everybody, it’s Robert Helms, host to The Real Estate Guys radio program and congratulations for getting educated and listening to The Gold Collar Investor.

Pancham Gupta  Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. This is your host, Pancham. Really appreciate you for tuning in today. I have invited back my good friend Matt Picheny. He was here on The Gold Collar Investor Podcast on show number 22, which you can listen to by going to thegoldcollarinvestor.com/show 22. He talked about he and his wife talked about investing in Broadway shows. And since then, they’ve won two Tony Awards but that’s not why he is here today. He’s here to talk about his journey from becoming a full-time syndicator. He started as an aspiring actor, and now he’s a full-time syndicator. He’s invested in over 8000 apartments nationwide and he is very, very well experienced in all operations and constructions and construction and acquisition and all facets of real estate investing. Hey, Matt, welcome back to the show.

Matt Picheny  Thanks, Pancham. It’s great to be back.

Pancham Gupta  It’s awesome. Last time I had you was on show number 22. We talked about Broadway shows, investing in Broadway shows with you and with your lovely wife, Erica. And it was an amazing show. I learned a lot like how all this stuff works on the back end in the backstage, which is the name of your company now you’re investing company. So, it’s all coming full circle. So, it’s awesome to have you back. And you know, are you ready to fire up my listeners break out of Wall Street investments?

Matt Picheny  100%

Pancham Gupta  Awesome and awesome. So, you know, listeners if you have not listened to the show, where Matt and his wife, Erica, talk about, you know, investing in Broadway shows your Broadway shows which happen in New York City on Broadway. That’s what we’re talking about, you can go to thegoldcollarinvestor.com/show 22 and it will take you right to that show. And at the time, so just to refresh people who have listened to that show, you were in the middle of releasing Moulin Rouge, that’s right? And then that happened and then obviously COVID happened, which shut down pretty much all the shows. So, there is a roller coaster ride there but overall, how did it go? 

Matt Picheny  Well since we spoke, Moulin Rouge did go to Broadway, and opened quite successfully. And so, we had another show as well since then, which was David Burns, American Utopia, both ran on Broadway and they’re both currently back on Broadway and fortunately, Erica and I both won Tony Awards for our role as co-producers in those shows, because the show’s won, the American Utopia won a special award, a special Tony Award. And Moulin Rouge won 10 Tony Awards, including Best Musical. So that was huge, unfortunately, you know, COVID had shut everything down prior to that the awards were just before COVID and things are just starting to get back going on Broadway, but they’re slow going and it’s unfortunate, because there’s a lot of other shows that maybe are great shows but didn’t get an award or were just starting and weren’t eligible for the Tony’s for that year. And it’s just this COVID thing in the drop and tourism here in New York has really affected the theater world. And so, it’s kind of bittersweet, because we want everything, we want the whole industry to do well. And unfortunately, it’s kind of seems to be doing kind of okay, but not great you know, on it. It’s not full houses and everything the way that it used to be. Some shows are right, like Hamilton, Moulin Rouge, when we saw Moulin Rouge, not too long ago when it was a full house, but some of the other shows that we’ve seen, unfortunately, aren’t full houses. And so hopefully that’s going to turn around. I’m hoping in the next six to nine months, let’s say as tourism starts to come back.

Pancham Gupta  Got it. No, that’s awesome. Congrats on getting that Tony Award. That’s awesome, man. 

Matt Picheny  Thanks. 

Pancham Gupta  So, tell our listeners just to refresh quick about your background and more importantly, the person behind that background.

Matt Picheny  Well, you know, I started off growing up. I was born in Orlando, Florida. And so, I grew up there and I moved to New York in 1992 to pursue a career in theater. I moved here I was an actor. And I wanted to do that and so I went to a musical theater Conservatory here in New York and I graduated from there. And three days after graduation, I was off on a national tour across the US. I had been auditioning during my final semester AMDA and I was a professional actor for five years.  I was in 15, different professional productions throughout the US tours regional theater, and had a blast, had a great time doing it. But when we’re about 1997, I started, instead of waiting on tables in between waiting jobs, I started tinkering around with computers, I had a lot of fun with it, and had taught myself HTML. And I was able to start doing some work in that field. And if that was during the.com, heyday, and so everything was just booming. I was being hired to work on different projects at different places. And its sure beat waiting tables at the hard rock cafe. So, I very much enjoyed that, and I was getting so much work that they started working from home, so that I could work at different hours, I was working way more than eight to nine hours a day, I was really working more like 12 to 15 hours a day, sort of freelance project by project base. And the work just kept coming in so much that I got another desk that I put into my apartment in New York, and I would hire people to come helps me out and charge a slight markup. And then I needed to get a third desk and I ran out of room in my little New York City apartment. So, I got an office space and created a company. And I had a company called Picheny Productions that ran for about five years in the city and was a little boutique agency and then the.com bubble burst. A lot of my clients had gone out of business, and more were scaling back what they were doing. And at that time, I got a call from my landlord. And I was told I had 90 days to get out of the apartment I was living in. 

Pancham Gupta  Oh, wow. Why is that?

Matt Picheny  Well, it couldn’t have happened at a worse time, the place was owned by a relative of mine, but he needed to go ahead and sell the property. When I first moved in there, I was like a starving actor, I think I’m sure we’ll talk about my book at some point, I have the exact number of my book. But like the year I moved in there, I think my total income for the year was a little under $8,000 Seems like $7,900 or something like that for the year. I mean, it wasn’t making anything at this point. I was making some decent money and I had saved up a little bit of money but then like I said it was several sorts of almost an Armageddon in 2001, this was before the towers went down. But this was after the.com bubble burst, and my business was imploding. And there was a lot of things going on. And I think my relative needed to sell the place that I was staying in.  So, I needed to find a place to live, and I also needed to find a job because I wanted to, I had no way to sort of verify my -inaudible – because I’ve been working for myself, and my business was not doing well. I was hired by one of my clients, Showtime, the cable television channel, offered me a position in house. One of the main duties was to update a website that me and my company had built for them. So, it was kind of a no brainer. We had a great relationship. So, I was happy to go there. And instead of renting an apartment, I wanted to live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, it was too expensive. I could have probably eked it out, but it was a much more comfortable situation for me to buy an apartment all the way up in Washington Heights. So that’s what I did. And about two and a half years later, I was able to sell that place and see my initial investment in the place my down payment, quadruple, which was huge. So that allowed me to move, buy a place on the Upper West Side, which is where I wanted to be to begin with. But number two, it really like opened my eyes to real estate and the power of real estate. I was like, wow, I need to do that again. I need to figure out how do I start doing this? How can I invest in real estate and that’s what set me you know, initially on mine on my path about a year after I moved into the new place on the Upper West Side, I bought a piece of land and then eventually developed that into a single-family home? And then that became a rental that I had a rental property and that’s what really taught me about rentals and taught me a ton of lessons about buying for cash flow, property management, the boring stuff like accounting and taxes, depreciation, and things like that. that that I was unaware of before this. And that building of that house, which initially in my head was going to be a vacation home but turned out to be a full-time rental for me, really set me on the path to where I am today now where I own thousands of apartment units sort of across the country. So that’s a little bit of the background.

Pancham Gupta  That’s great. So, talk about like, how did you get into apartments, right? Like, it’s one thing to get into buy your single-family house and rent it out, right, which a lot of people start with specially when they live in one house, and then they buy a bigger place, they rent out the previous one. That’s how a lot of people get introduced to this stuff, right? So how did you get from there to syndications?

Matt Picheny  Well, for me, it all started with a house hack, right? So, a house hack is what they call it. When you buy a place either, you know, two to four unit and you live in one of those unit and you rent out the others. I didn’t know that there was a thing called a house hack. But I bought a townhouse in Brooklyn. My family was expanding. I had married Erica, she was pregnant, and we needed to find some more space, so we moved out of Manhattan moved to Brooklyn. And in that search, I started to realize that I could get a two-family property like a townhouse and my portion of the mortgage would be lower than if I bought a whole place myself or rented. So, I did that. And that really started opening my eyes and I wanted to do more. I wanted to go bigger. I wanted to buy maybe another townhouse or maybe a four plex or a ten plex, but the issue was, I didn’t have enough money. I mean, I had spent everything that I own to buy the townhouse that we lived in, right. So how was I going to get that capital? You know, short of having some rich relatives that I didn’t know about die and leave me millions of dollars, like in that movie, Brewster’s Millions, right? That’s not going to happen. So, I was sort of resigned to the fact that well, I’ll just have to continue to work my corporate job and save up money for another five to 10 years, and then maybe I can buy something else. Well, something interesting happened. A little over a year after living here in Brooklyn, was Erica got a phone call completely out of the blue for an amazing opportunity for her. But the issue was the job was in Miami, Florida. Thinking about it and looking at it. It just was too good of an offer for Erica to pass up. And so, we moved to Florida. We kept the townhouse in Brooklyn. And we were able to rent the townhouse in Brooklyn. Now we were renting both units. So that was providing us with some nice cash flow. We had some other investments, the place in Connecticut, which was really kind of just breaking even. We also had some theatrical investments. This was before Moulin Rouge, obviously, but we were fortunate enough to have invested in Hamilton. So, and Hamilton had just opened right around then. So that was doing well. We were very happy to get so we had a little bit of passive income coming from these different sources. And we were in Miami, and I was sort of looking for something in digital marketing, which is what I had worked in, but I was really burned out. I didn’t really want to do that. And I was listening to Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Listening to the Hamilton soundtrack, the Hamilton soundtrack, kind of like back and forth between the two, right? We were listening to Hamilton all the time back in those days. And it came to me one day, you know, while I was looking for a job and listening to Kiyosaki talking about building these streams of passive income, right, and I had a couple. I had the money from Hamilton, I had the money from the Brooklyn house, and I was also listening to Hamilton. I’m listening to the song, My Shot and they’re like, take your shot, take your shot, take your shot. And I just said, you know what, I don’t know why I’m looking for a job right now in digital marketing. Like none of the jobs down there were at the big agencies like I had done in New York, and I was burned out from it. And I had been doing real estate at this point for 10 years as a hobby as a passion project. And that’s really where my passion was. So, I said, why don’t I go ahead and do this real estate thing full time. But then, you know, we had the issue, like you said, with the capital, I found out about real estate syndications, which I’m sure most of your listeners have heard about by now, which is where a bunch of investors can get together and pool their money together. And I said, wow, this is great. And I started going to different conferences and things of that nature that were regarding multifamily syndications. I started listening to podcasts, reading books, networking events. And within the syndication realm, there’s a couple of different things that you can do but a lot of people focus on the multifamily apartments, and I had sort of a multifamily apartment with the duplex I had been renting out the single-family home and I wanted to scale it to buy 100 single family homes can be very difficult to find, identify, acquire those properties, finance them. You know the great thing about single family homes, and I own a couple single families. I mean, I think they’re great. But the thing is, you can only purchase about 10 of those with a conventional mortgage, which is fantastic like a 30 year fully amortizing mortgage, it’s probably the I think it’s the best kind of debt that you can get out there. But once you hit 10, you hit that ceiling. So in order to create an actual business, and have something where I could sustain myself, I needed to go be able to scale, right, because with 10, single family homes, you know, even if you’re making, let’s say, $200 per door, per year, it still ends up being like less than $30,000 a year, which, you know, look, I’m happy to get, you know, I think it’s like around $25,000 a year, that’s awesome. I love $25,000 a year; I would not shy away from it. But if that’s my only source of income, and I’m sort of that’s a ceiling, it’s not sustainable. So, I wanted to find something that was scalable. And so, I went into the multifamily world.

Pancham Gupta  That’s awesome. And that story of you listening to Hamilton and the book, and then really taking the shot, that’s awesome. So, imagine that song you owe to that song and that book, to where you are today. So now, that’s that and now here you are owning thousands of apartments and raising millions of dollars. And with all that you now wrote a book, which is rightfully called Backstage Guide to Real Estate Investing, right? And you know, produce passive income, write your own story, and direct your dollars towards positive change, right? So, talk about that book, why you wrote that book. And listeners, if you’re listening to this, stay till the end, and Matt will share with you how to buy, how to get hold of this book before he officially launches. For very, very actually, for nothing. Pretty much. So Matt, go ahead. So Pancham, do you know how many people are on meetup.com? How many members they have? meetup.com? No, I know, big but it’s not I don’t know the number.

Matt Picheny  So, I just looked it up the other day, because I was curious is 44 million to have 44 million people registered on that site, which is phenomenal. And the reason why I bring that up is that the meetup is really sort of the genesis of the book. So, I was running a meetup in Boston, Massachusetts and we would have a, at the beginning, we would have 20,30 people by the end right before COVID. We would have you know, 100-200 people sometimes at our events, and it was great. It was phenomenal. We had people of all levels, right? People who’ve never done anything. And then we had people seasoned pros. But most people hadn’t done much. Maybe they had a turnkey single family that they owned, or a lot of them own like a duplex or a triplex rental that they might end up they either they had a house hacked, or they just owned, and we’re interested in doing more. And so, as people would come to the meetup and learn more about passive investing and feel comfortable investing out of state because that was a big hurdle for some people who own things in state, you know, they decide they want to invest passively in a syndication, they would be looking at syndications. And I, as the host of the meetup, we would have lots of different guests, but I would also sometimes speak and provide educational content to people, people sort of would reach out to me and say, hey, Matt, I’m thinking about investing in this deal that I saw, would you mind looking at it and giving me your two cents, you know. My portfolio is big, I own, you know, around 8000 apartment units across the country but two thirds of that are deals that I’m a limited partner in, right. I’m a passive investor in that and everybody knows that and my meetup, so they feel comfortable, you know, hopefully, I like to think of myself as approachable. And I guess they felt the same way, they would come to me and asked me to look at it. And so, I would look at these passive deals and ask them questions about the deal and point out things that as a passive investor, I would want to ask the sponsor, how did they come up with this number? Why did they come up with this projection? You know, I would never tell people do this deal, or don’t do that deal, that’s up for them to decide but I would just give them some guidelines and say, you know, wow, this fee that they’re taking here seems kind of high compared to most industry standards, like, do you know why or, you know, just little different things, but a lot of them would be sort of kept coming up. And what happened was a lot of these people who were interested in deals would come to me and it was, I’m happy to give my time but it was it was taking up a lot my time during the day, and I, you know, I have other things that I need to do, but I want to help people out. So, I was like, I was thinking, geez, how can I help these people, but reduce the amount of time it takes for me and I said, well, you know what, maybe I should just write this all down. So that’s really the genesis of the book. I mean, I wrote this book, the back, at the end of the book, there’s a section. But there’s four sections called the Backstage Toolbox, which really goes through and gives you know, quick guide to sizing up syndications. And then it dives deep, deep. I call it the Backstage Tours Syndications where it really gets into the nitty gritty on underwriting all those things. And that’s at the back of the book along with these keystone concepts that I share throughout the book, and all the glossary I throughout the book, I have 16 different real estate terms that are defined, and then I have them all sort of conglomerated together in the back of the book as an index slash glossary. So that is kind of what the initial intention for the book was. But that’s now a small portion of the book because what I realized, after I wrote, the first version of the book was that it was dry and dense and boring and difficult to read. And unless it was someone like you Pancham, I mean, you’re a guy who’s really analytics, you’re very, very well steeped in real estate. I mean, you do real estate full time, you really know what you’re doing, you might find the original version of the book that I wrote, interesting but I think most people would find it boring. And this book is really written for like the everyday person. So, it starts off at the very beginning, it walks you through, what I decided to do was write the story of my journey in real estate starting from when I knew absolutely nothing, all the way to the more complex like air rights deals and 1031 exchanges that I’ve done. So, in the very beginning, I talked about very simple concepts like assets, liabilities, and what a mortgage is, and then quickly start to go through and tell my story of real estate, my journey, and through it teach these Keystone concepts that I’ve learned along the way. So really anyone regardless of where they are in their real estate journey, and regardless of what they want to do, if they just want to passively invest, this book is for them, if they want to start maybe syndicating deals and running deals. This doesn’t teach you necessarily how to do that. But it does share what my experience was and how I got started. So, it’s really a book, I hope for everybody. But it was mainly focused on people, for people to do what the subtitle says, right, which is to produce that passive income, which in turn, lets them write their own story, whatever that story is, right? This is my story, but theirs is going to be different. And then, hopefully, I’m hopeful that people with that passive income will direct their dollars toward positive change. So, for me, that must deal with how I run the properties and I talk about that in the book and sort of my genesis for wanting to be a property owner, and how I think that property ownership can be a positive for communities. And that’s what I’m hoping people who read my book will, will either invest with people who are doing that, or do that on their own, to make a positive impact. And we’re not curing cancer here, we’re all here to make a profit. But I think you can do that in an ethical way and in a way that helps people. So that’s what I’m looking to do. So that’s the direct $2 towards positive change, or, or in addition to, if you have passive income coming in, that frees your time to do things that can be make a positive impact in your community and give back. So that’s sort of the genesis behind that subtitle.

Pancham Gupta  That’s awesome. So, anyone listening just for that Backstage Tour of Syndications that Matt mentioned just for that, I would go get that book is going to give that perspective from a passive investor. You know, I talk about this all the time on the phone with investors, and I totally get it when you mentioned that, hey, you know, maybe I should just write everything down and that’s what, you know, I’ve tried to do by recording these podcasts and different kinds of educational tools. We’re all trying to educate. And I think this book is going to be good kind of for people who are who are looking to get started for sure. So Matt, like tell us like one takeaway, biggest takeaway from the book that someone who’s reading would get if there is a passive investor I you know, who’s reading, and he’s working full time job and loves his job. He doesn’t want to be active syndicator, or you know, investor he wants to invest with people like you, what would they get out of the book?

I think they’re gonna get a lot from the book with those glossary definitions and the peeling baton you know, like I like I say, it’s like pulling back the curtain right and seeing backstage like, exactly the inner workings of deals. I have these 18 Keystone concepts that that I teach you about the book. I think different ones will resonate with, with different people based on their background. The big thing for me, the big catalyst, and all of this was that time is more valuable than money, right? The Keystone concept is don’t trade your time for money, right? You can always generate more money; you can’t generate time. Time is finite, right? So instead of trading your time, for money, like working a job, if you can find a way to make your money work for you, regardless of what you’re doing passive income, right. So maybe that’s investing in, you know, a real estate syndication, maybe that’s a new construction development, maybe that’s an assisted living facility, whatever that ends up being, maybe it’s something that’s not in real estate, maybe it’s a Broadway show, you know, who knows. But if you can find a way to invest your money in something that’s going to generate returns for you without you having to put more time into it, that’s key. And that that’s what I’ve been doing is creating lots of those right, many different ones investing in little businesses, which are mainly all real estate, businesses, and apartments, each, each little apartment syndication has its own little business, and trying to find out ways to develop that passive income streams.

Pancham Gupta  Awesome. So, this, so stay tuned till the end, Matt is going to give away how you can get that book. So Matt, we’ll be back after this message. 

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Pancham Gupta  So, let’s move on to the next part of the show, Matt, here I talk about four questions, which I talk to everyone about. I call this round taking the leap round. Since you’re a repeat guest, you’re back, you know you’ve answered these questions before, I want to ask you some different questions. And my first question for you is, what is one thing that you do now to live a meaningful and intentional life by design?

Matt Picheny  Well, I had goals, you know, I’ve set goals for myself. And those goals are business goals, but also personal goals and that that’s how I’m able to design and have an intentional life. So, I think writing things down on paper, which I never did before I don’t write them down, I typed them, they’re in pixels on my computer, and checking in on them and checking in on my progress is something that I that I never really did and in consistent basis is something that I do now. 

Pancham Gupta  This is so important. I will tell you that writing your goals down, there’s a study done, people who write their goals down whether on paper or on computer are more likely, I forgot the percentage, the amount, the likelihood of you achieving those is much, much higher. And then if you visualize your goals on top of writing them, it just becomes inevitable. Like you, you kind of achieved them. So that’s awesome. So, my second question for you is what is one book that has had the most impact in your life? Is it the Rich Dad, Poor Dad, you mentioned?

Matt Picheny  The most impactful Yeah, I mean, would be Rich Dad, Poor Dad. It’s a great book. Yeah, I’m reading a book right now that’s interesting too, which I’d love to mention. I think you may have read upon some but it’s The Creature from Jekyll Island, which is really fascinating an eye opening to see how the federal reserve system was created, might be something that you’re…

Pancham Gupta  What are you saying that Federal Reserve is not federal, and they don’t have any reserves?

Matt Picheny  I’m not saying that. But that look says…

Pancham Gupta  That’s what the book is about. I had the author, G. Edward Griffin on the show, longtime back and that was before I had you on and was one of the early shows that book has had so much of impact on me. And that really defined everything how I invest in you know, really understanding the system. And listeners, if you want to learn about that, I will listen to that show. It’s a short show, as show #16, thegoldcollarinvestor.com/show16. So that book, Matt, I’m sure I don’t know where you are in the book. It’s such an eye opener, given what’s happening now, especially after COVID with how much printing and all that is going on. It is just mind boggling that it is so true. It was written before 2001 crash; was written I think in 94. And yeah, it’s just a great book. It’s a very long read. It’s a heavy read, but it is good one.

Matt Picheny  Yeah, it is. It’s heavy, it’s good. You know, I knew and understood, I think the basics of what’s there, but he is really explaining like the genesis of it and the inner workings is, it’s phenomenal.

Pancham Gupta  It’s amazing. A lot of people don’t know this, but Federal Reserve is the third central bank that US has had, there was a first central bank, it was called the first central bank. And then the second central bank was called the second central bank. And then this is the third one, but they called it Federal Reserve, which is nothing federal and no reserve. So, all right, so my third question for you, Matt, is, are you working on anything now that is bringing you outside of your comfort zone? If so, what is it?

Matt Picheny  I’m launching a book. I’m not a writer, you know. And so, I worked hard on the book, but it really did push me out of my comfort zone. So that’s been a big thing for me, in terms of the real estate, I’m always looking at deals and sort of stretching and doing different and bigger things. But that really is the thing that pushed me out of my comfort zone, was working on this thing, on this project.

Pancham Gupta  Awesome. Writing a book is one of my goals, which I have written down, but something that I have not been able to, you know, really spend time on. This is awesome. I kudos to you to do that. 

Matt Picheny  Thanks. 

Pancham Gupta  So, this is great, Matt, and how can listeners get hold of this book? And we’re very interested in getting after hearing what you have written in the book?

Matt Picheny  Well, I think have you set up an email Pancham, right. So Backstage, so just backstage @thegoldcollarinvestor.com. If you send an email there, you’ll get all the information. The book right now, for a limited time is available for $.0.99 for a digital copy and $9.99 for the paperback, which is a lot less than what it will retail for. So, your listeners are finding out about it now if they listened to this before February 9 of 2022, They should, you know, send an email as quickly as possible so they can take advantage of that deal. And they’re listening to it after the book will still be available. It will just go up to the regular retail prices.

Pancham Gupta  Great. Yeah, this show is going to go out right around Christmas of 2021. So, they’ll have plenty of time to listen to it and get your book, Matt. So great. Thank you, Matt, for your time here.

Matt Picheny  Hey, Pancham, it was my pleasure. Thanks for having me on as a returning guest. It was so much fun and yeah, thanks.

Pancham Gupta  Thanks. I hope you learn something from Matt on this show and encourage you to get his book. Go and email on backstage, backstage@thegoldcollarinvestor.com to get all the details. If you have any questions, you can email me at pathomolecular investor.com.  That’s p as in Paul@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. This is Pancham, signing off. Until next time, take care.

Thank you for listening to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of Pancham Gupta, visit us at www.thegoldcollar investor.com and follow us on Facebook at The Gold Collar Investor. The information on this podcast are opinions. As always, please consult your own financial team before investing.