Welcome to the gold color investor podcast with your host Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams. Here’s your host Pancham Gupta.

Well, hi there. I’m Robert Helms, host of the real estate guys radio program. And if you want to have better results in your life, you got to put better ideas in your mind, you’re in the right place. They’re at the gold collar investor podcast.

Pancham Gupta  Like I’m good to go collar investor podcast, this is your host punch. I’m really appreciate you for tuning in today. Let’s get into today’s show. So, you know, I’ve been looking into many, many different alternative asset classes on top of real estate, gold and silver crypto that I always talk about, with discuss insurance and all different things here on the podcast. I came across, Vinovest, which is investing in wine. If you’re a connoisseur of wine, this could be a great way to invest in wine, which you never thought probably before that existed. But it is an alternative way to invest in wines and different asset classes, taking some chips off the Wall Street. And if you’re very well diversified, getting diversified more. So I have the CEO of Vinovest, here with me today. His name is Anthony is a peak in entrepreneur who has previously founded and sold to companies and EnvoyNow and Know Your VC. He has also held leadership positions at block folio and is a board member at Rate My Investor. Anthony, welcome to the show.

Anthony Zhang  Thank you so much for having me on. I’m very excited to chat with you today.

Pancham Gupta  You know, absolutely. I’m super excited to learn about what we know West has to offer I you know, hear good things about your company, you help people invest in wine. So I would want to know more about that. And before we get started, are you ready to fire up my last nerve break or the Wall Street investments?

Anthony Zhang  Absolutely. Let’s do it. Yeah, you know,

Pancham Gupta  we’re recording it in a very uncertain time period. There’s a lot going on in the world. So I’m sure people would be more excited to learn about this. So before we get started Anthony, like, talk to the listeners who don’t know about the company, active before the company about your background, where you know how and how you came up with the idea of reinvest?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, happy to so my entire background has been in building technology startups. So I went to the University of Southern California. And my first year in college, I built my first company EnvoyNow, it was a college food delivery app. And we were lucky enough to be able to receive funding offers from the likes of Mark Cuban and Peter Thiel. And that gave me the confidence to be able to drop out of college and take that startup full time, we were able to grow that company over the next four or so years. It scale that across many different markets in the United States. And that company ultimately got acquired. After that acquisition, you know, like any first time entrepreneur, you turn and look and reflect and be like, Hey, how can I start investing, set myself up? And then at the same time, think about what’s the next big thing for you. So that’s when I started investing. And I thought it was pretty boring to just invest in just stocks and bonds.

Pancham Gupta  I don’t blame me on that,

Anthony Zhang  though, immediately was looking into angel investing cryptocurrency and then wine, and how wine came about, was just stumbling upon an article seeing what the ultra rich were investing in. And no surprise, they’re talking about all these high performing assets like art and jewelry and classic cars and, and wine and whiskey. And wine just really stood out to me because of its utility, you know, it’s something that you can drink and enjoy at the end of the day. So I thought to myself, if I’m not a very successful wine investor, at least, a very nice collection of buying, like the stocks or you can go to zero can still trick this nice wine. So I was like, alright, let’s dive into it very quickly realized that it was much easier said than done. There were a ton of barriers to entry that made me realize why only ultra wealthy people were able to invest in wine things like access to the right wines, things like storage, things like being able to handle buying in and out of positions in an effective way for liquidity. And that really led me to go down the rabbit hole wanting to solve this problem for myself at first and realizing that, hey, if I’m spending this much time doing this, there’s probably a lot of other people who may have thought of or maybe have not thought about diversifying and wine but this should be an asset class that is accessible for everybody just like, just like stocks and bonds are right. So that’s really how Vinovest was born. And really our purpose is to take this very hard to invest in asset class and make it more accessible for anybody. So that’s an option for anybody’s diversified portfolio.

Pancham Gupta  Got it? That’s awesome. So let me ask you this, just out of curiosity, like a lot of my listeners are in the tech field, they always want to start their own startup, they have a lot of ideas. And I’m sure you know that, when you thought of this idea of Vinovest, right? Did you have any, like, when you did market research, did you find any competitor for you at all, at the time that anyone who’s trying to do that? At any level?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, so I, I was actually a customer, quite a few of these, now competitors of mine, right? Because at first I was like, you know, I can’t do it myself the DIY approach. So let’s find a company that can help me invest my money in wine. And I tried out a few for myself, but really just, I think the user experience, the level of sort of client communication. And most importantly, the sort of, I think level of comfort I felt with putting my money with them just wasn’t there. So that’s what led me to be like, Alright, there’s got to be a better solution. It doesn’t look like there’s a lot of innovation in the space. So let’s build to motivation.

Pancham Gupta  Yeah, awesome. All right. So let’s get into you know what’s right for people who may be listening to this. And they like, what? You can invest in wine. They didn’t know that. So let’s talk about from the very basic idea of it. You already mentioned that how from investor point of view, what are they getting when they’re investing? Right, like in Vinovest? And then we’ll switch gears later on to talk about the sourcing side of things, which you also mentioned, touched upon briefly. Absolutely.

Anthony Zhang   I think you brought up a good first one on on, like, what is even investing in wine, right? Because, yeah, I didn’t even know it existed. And I think most of our listeners may be in the same boat. And why is wine even considered to be investable. Right. So I think, at the principal’s level, you know, wine is something that improves with age, which is why a lot of people like to age that wine. And as time goes on, right, global consumption starts to take place. So maybe on day one, there’s 10,000 bottles, but maybe on your wine, there’s 9000, right, I think just from pure supply and demand, as this asset improves with time, the supply goes down and demand goes up. And it’s those very simple fundamentals that drive the pricing and the wine market. And that’s what leads to these double digit annual returns. And when we’re talking about investing in wine, what you get from Vinovest, it’s us getting to a help you pick out these wines, we help you manage them, we store them for you, we insured them for you. And we also give you recommendations on hey, how do you rebalance your portfolio? Right? It’s not just a buy and hold for five years sort of strategy. There’s movements in the market? How can we help you exit those clients at the end of the day, in an efficient way? And really, how can we help you become more educated about the asset class? Right? Well, it makes one wine more investable than the other. And we have a ton of educational content on a regular basis where we interact with our clients through webinars through individual one on one calls. And that’s

Pancham Gupta  got it got it. All right. So if I’m an investor, I’m listening to you just describing this that so my first question would be that, Hey, Anthony. So that sounds great. Do I get to also enjoy any kind of cash flow when I invest? Or is it pure appreciation based and the age base? I know there are very few things like so there are multiple dynamics going on here, right there. as it ages, the overall supply goes down and the value goes up, because depending on the demand for that particular asset or the wine, right, so as an investor, I get that, but you know, is there any stream as well as part of this? Yeah,

Anthony Zhang  so that’s what really comes out of the rear rebalancing strategy, right. So if an investor is looking for, you know, a certain percentage of yield, they can be able to sell x percent of the portfolio out every single year, while still being able to maintain appreciation, the rest of the portfolio, but unlike, say real estate or some sort of annuity, right, it’s not dividend generating in that sense.

Pancham Gupta  Got it. So really, as a backing off, you’re this asset class is the certain stock of wine, right, that you have, and what’s the end goal like you just store and preserve like your wine cellar right behind? Do you people are watching on YouTube, that you basically are insuring just like you have gold, for instance, people who want to visualize it, there is metal. And that’s what getting stored in a vault somewhere and it’s insured, you know, if something were to happen, and assuming the value of gold goes up, when they sell it, they will realize the gain. So that’s what that is like your, when you actually buy it, you store it, you insure it. And then at some point, which will be determined beforehand, when you are actually presenting that offering to the investor, that okay, in three years or so we are gonna dispose of this entire fund or whatever that stock is.

Anthony Zhang  Exactly, exactly. And we help you buy those entire bottles and cases of wine. So for the investor, they also have the option, right, if they want to actually drink that wine, redeem it, at the end of the day, they can also do that as well. So oh, I have a few investors who, you know, maybe they’re just looking to breakeven on their investment, right. And they actually use the profits that they can generate each year to essentially drink really nice wine for free. So that’s, I think the difference between wine and a lot of these sort of maybe a gold or an art, for example, where you can’t really eat gold, right? Or, of course, appreciate art, but it’s very different than drinking wine. So that’s something different where because we’re not structuring it like a fund or, you know, you’re buying shares that represent wine, you’re actually owning the direct bottle, you can enjoy some of that direct utility that comes out of you know, an asset like wine.

Pancham Gupta  Got it. So it is really like a segregated wine purchase, where if I come to you, Anthony, and I invested with you, there was some place somewhere it and okay, this particular section of wine cellar is owned by Pancham.

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, exactly, exactly. That’s the way that we do. We’re each one of our clients has their own individual portfolio, so everything is yours. It’s individualized and customized to your preferences so that you have full control over it, right. It’s not like you have a lockup period. It’s not like you need to wait for other shareholder approval, you have that sort of full customizability, which a lot of our clients really enjoy.

Pancham Gupta  Got it? No, that is great. I actually did not think of it that way, when we just started the interview. And now it’s clear. So let me ask you then, in this case, right, so what is kind of the expense ratio for me as an investor, I’m an investor in gold and silver, and you know, store that metal somewhere as well. And there is cost associated with that trade where in this case, you’re also storing there’s a cost associated with running the wine cellar and all that, and then also insuring it just in case a fire were to happen or something were to happen natural events. Do you have a fixed expense ratio for the investors when it comes to that? Yeah,

Anthony Zhang  great question. So, for example, the average line in our clients portfolios last year returned 19.3%, off that 19.3%, we charge between a two and 2.85% fee. So their net returns are closer to 17%. So that fee covers the storage, the insurance, the acquisition, everything that you would need on the platform. So it’s a very simple all in one.

Pancham Gupta  Got it. So that fees is charged at the back end or at the front end,

Anthony Zhang  it’s charged on a monthly prorated basis or you charge your you know, your fee divided by 12. Right, based on the net asset value of your portfolio each month.

Pancham Gupta  Okay, so then my natural question as an investor would be, so how would you come up with our projected net asset value? Is it something that from the market study? Like how does that come about?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, great question. So like stocks, there are wine purchases and sales being done every single day. So we are able to pull that data and give you live sale data, right? Your wine is worth what the last person paid for it.

Pancham Gupta  Got it. And when you do your projections, like you know if I want to buy wine, like do you offer projections to Okay, in five years, this would be this much or you just offer Okay, here’s what you can buy, and we will store it for you.

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, we more look at historicals. Right. Obviously very hard to do projections in any sort of asset. Yeah, I think with something like wine. The good thing is you have a lot of COPs, right and say, a winery that’s been around for 50 years, they’re releasing wine on the dot every single year. So you can see in the past what a year five old wine looks like or a 10 year old wine looks like or a 15 year old wine looks like along that appreciation curve, and then be able to start spotting some similarities. So that’s what a lot of the heavy lifting and analysis that our data team does to be able to help make those recommended See what is investment? Where are they see, when the right time to get in and out of these buying purchases and sales are. So that’s some of the, you know, sort of differences in the wine market versus traditional assets is that sort of COP, right? It’s like if, if Apple issued new stock every single year, you can be able to maybe start to spot some trends as the years go by.

Pancham Gupta  Right, right. So if I were to log in, in the portal, I invested with you this net asset value, the concept you’re talking about, is their transparency in terms of all these columns that derive this net asset value on the portal.

Anthony Zhang  So we show you what our methodology is. And our methodology is also verified by GIFS. So the the actual CFA Institute’s sort of standard for calculating performance and pricing methodology. So we’re actually only one company in the world to actually have achieved that sort of standard as well.

Pancham Gupta  Got it. Alright, cool. So my last question from an investor point of view, then we’ll go to the social side of things is that how long does it so I get really excited after listening to what all you said, and I’m huge connoisseur of wine, and I go to invest credit an account and get this wine, how long does it take for someone like based on your historical experience, and since you’ve started the company, for someone to start seeing some kind of profits, net of fees?

Anthony Zhang  So I think to be able to achieve the best returns wine should be thought of as the mid to long term asset, right? Because it really just takes time for the line to age, right? Nobody can. Nobody can speed up or slow down time yet. So we really recommend a five to 10 year timeline, however, people are seeing returns every single year. But I think, to be able to kind of let that wine achieve its sort of Peak Peak appreciation period. We want to be able to buy wine and a few years in advance, right? Or else everybody would be buying it at that point.

Pancham Gupta  Right. Okay. Cool. Cool. So let’s talk about the sourcing side right now. Is all of your procurement within US? Are you do worldwide? Number one? And number two? Is your all of your storage within US? Or you do it? It’s scattered across the world?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah. And I can kind of answer those thoughts into one big answer. So the answer is worldwide for both. Because wine is grown worldwide, the global sort of epicenter of wine is still in Europe, right? Which French wine with Italian wines. And because of that, we have our storage facilities all around the world as well, we locate the next wine growing hotspots, as well as wine trading hotspots. So growing hotspots would be you know, like Napa Valley here in the United States, like Bordeaux and France, for example. And then the sort of wine trading hotspots would be places like London, or Singapore, Hong Kong, places that have large amounts of consumption and trade for wine. And when we have all of those storage facilities set up, it gives us an efficient distributed network of warehouses where there’s really minimal movement, physically of the wine when we’re making purchases, and trades and making transactions for our clients. Because a lot of those wineries also use those same facilities. So say, if we buy from Winery A and Bordeaux, they’re probably already storing some of their stock over there as well, if not already, so we’re able to have a pretty say eco friendly approach to our storage as well.

Pancham Gupta  Got it. So is it fair to assume that you have third party storage companies, which have been in business for some time, you can do long term contracts with them, or you, you’ve started creating your own storage facilities where you build ground up, or rent them out? Or?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, these are all third party relationships that we have. So that helps us be able to scale our storage very, very rapidly. And because they’ve been in business for decades, right, it also helps to de risk the custody side of things and the insurance side of things as

Pancham Gupta  well. Got it. So that’s great. And then you alluded to this in the very beginning, when you were talking about the background, that it’s very hard to source, wine, right. And certain kinds of, do you have a certain kind of checklist or criteria that you kind of stick with in order to source these wines, are you I’m just thinking from our point of view when we are investing, picking up buildings or real estate, we have a very specific list of checklists, right on things that we have to meet. Do you have things like that, that you have or it’s more like, okay, whatever is in demand, you would go with that?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, we definitely have a lot of internal criteria for it to be considered investment grade because you know, wine industry is huge, right? There’s about Think of over 350-360 billion dollars, with the wine being released into the market each year. But only the top, I’d say 10 to 15% of that dollar value is considered blue chip wine. So investable wines that actually will go up in value, whereas the rest are more so like everyday drink wines, right stuff that you may pick up at the grocery store just for cooking, may want to consume right away. So that’s sort of our first criteria. And then second is looking at price track record, right, looking at supply and demand if the yearly demand is always outstripping the supply. And then also looking at things like critic scores, things like brand equity, things like changing ownership as well, as well as looking at also outside factors, right, like weather patterns, regional regional trends and consumption ships as well.

Pancham Gupta  So that’s interesting. You mentioned change of ownership, you mean the change of ownership of wineries?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, so if Amazon change of CEO, right, that’s big news that could really drastically alter the trajectory of that company. Same thing with the winery, right? If, if a small family owned winery gets purchased by a conglomerate, you know, it’s gonna have a lot more marketing power become a lot more efficient, but its operations. And conceivably, if they still keep their supply down, the demand will go up, right? Or if it’s the opposite, right, if it, maybe there’s a lot of family drama within the the winery, as many, you know, family wineries tend to have, and they can’t decide what to do, right, but maybe the quality is going to go down year after year. So who’s leading the charge at the winery is is also quite important to us, because it also determines the trajectory in the future.

Pancham Gupta  Yeah, no, this is very interesting. I remember being in Tuscany, three, four years ago, there was pre pandemic, and there was this guy who’s giving us tour, and we’re going to different wineries. Right. And he pointed to one winery, I don’t even remember the name or anything, but it’s like, this has been within the family for last, like 25 generations, he said, something like that. And I’m like, what? You know, it’s like, yeah, and he’s like, John, this is have been there for, you know, centuries. And I’m like, wow, okay, so that’s, like, very typical. I couldn’t believe it. 25 years that 25 generations,

Anthony Zhang  especially in Europe, right, where the the wine growing culture has, has been for, you know, since the Roman times. Yeah. Yeah. It’s definitely a pretty, you know, pretty common thing, where it’s not like any of these are very few of these wineries or public companies or even had aspirations, do they, they want to stay family, all right, because wine is something where you really do respect tradition, the way that they farm the wine and the grapes lead is very similar to how they did 1000 years ago. And I could definitely see that international, keeping the family sort of attitude being very common over there.

Pancham Gupta  Yeah, and I love even in Napa Valley, you know, we were there once, it was like, every winery you go to they have this place, you can go taste and you sit inside a nice restaurant. It’s just amazing experience. Cool. Cool. So let me ask you this. I’m switching back to the investor point of view. So let’s say if I’m an investor, what are some of the things and I go to Vinovest and I see all these options? What are some of the things that I need to be careful about before investing in wine? Like can people lose the principal? Right? If so, what are what’s the probability we’re talking about, given that it’s insured and all that?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, great question. So I would say the two biggest risks in this market are a buying fraudulent wine, and then be storing the wine incorrectly, right, you could buy the best wine in the world, the best price, you store the wrong temperature, it’s going to be going to zero, right, so that’s losing your principal. So the insurance that we have with our storage facilities helps to protect you against that. So say there’s somebody knocks it over at the storage facility or the power goes out, and it doesn’t, doesn’t reach the right temperature, that is all insured against your full principle. And then we also have an authentication team at the warehouse, where they’re actually inspecting the wines as they come in, making sure that they’re coming actually from the winery or a reputable source to be able to de risk that fraudulent side of it. So you know, we’ve we’ve definitely been able to spot a lot of fraudulent wines throughout the years. And it’s pretty incredible, the sort of work that the team does. It’s almost like forensic science at some point where they’re like, you know, looking at the blue light and like, the like font sizes and things like that. I’m like, holy crap, you can see those things, but it’s a very cool party trick if you’re at a restaurant, because this is a big, you know, be able to do things like that. But those are the two biggest risks, Vinovest best help so heavily, heavily take away most of those risks. And I think the next thing is really knowing what you want to get out of this Investment like any asset class, right? Are you looking for something short term? Are you looking for something long term? Right? How much do you plan to put in over time? What’s your risk appetite? Those are all questions that I think you need to ask yourself before putting money into anything. So that’s nothing that I think is specific about Vinovest, or the wine asset class.

Pancham Gupta  Got it? Cool. Cool. So my last question, actually, I have one more question after this one is that I see on your website, right? You have different models like, okay, different tiers, depending on how much you want to invest. Right? Is that? Is that how you have it? Right? Yeah, once you pick that, it’s pretty much after you’re done that, you just go and pick whatever one you want in that you have available. And it’s as simple as just signing the paperwork, or ppm, or whatever it is, and sending the money.

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, so it’s pretty straightforward are sort of more starter entry level tears are automated, you know, you just connect your online bank account. And then we’re able to algorithmically generate your portfolios. And then on the higher tiers, you get paired with an individual portfolio manager, if you want something more specific, and be able to have access to additional features on the platform, or within the wine world, like access to wine futures, for example. Those are all additional benefits that you can have at higher tiers. But both offer a pretty hands off approach where we want to do the heavy lifting for you. And make sure that you can be able to, first of all, be able to understand the asset, learn more about it, and then be able to have us as as the experts by your side.

Pancham Gupta  Cool. So let me ask you my final question. Actually, it’s two questions combined into one. One is that what’s next for you know, West? You know, what it is that you are aspiring to get to? Is it like creating wineries or owning wineries and doing all that? Or is it just making the platform better, there is always more things to do to get to the next level, wherever you are today. That’s one and second is more of a mindset question. You have now started and sold one startup. And now you’re, you know, at the helm of this second one, I want to understand from your mindset point of view, is there something that you do daily any morning routine are anything that to kind of tell you to keep you motivated, and be get up every day and work at this company and make it a better place?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, that’s a great question. I’ll answer that one first. Because from a mindset, it’s really just being able to work on what is my dream, right, I was already going already investing in wine on the side for many years, pretty much a hobby turned into an obsession. And now I get to help 10s of 1000s of people do it globally, every single day. So I love being able to play a small part within creating economic opportunities for people, because I firmly believe that, you know, big reason why we have a huge wealth gap. And what’s I think separating the ultra wealthy from middle class or maybe like normal, wealthy is your access to quality, alternative assets, right, everybody has access to the stock market, everybody has access to crypto, but not everybody has access to the same information when you’re talking about private markets and alternative assets. That’s where I think a lot of the real money is made, right? If you look at the most successful fund managers, their their allocations of alternatives is extremely high, right? Some of them over over even 30%. So that is really, I think, what Vinovest is charging toward in our mission. And if we can play a small part in changing that, that makes me really happy. And then in terms of what’s next for us, we see this as just being one step into, I think, to the advertising a lot of asset classes that are hard to reach. So next really natural trend. growth for us is moving into whiskey, right? It’s similar to wine and that it’s has very steady growth, hard to store, right hard to manage how to get your access to the very high end ones. And that’s something that we plan on launching later this year as ball was vertical.

Pancham Gupta  Well, awesome. Well, good luck with that. So what’s your typical, like, since you started a company, what’s the overall investments you’ve placed into some total into wines? If you can disclose that? If not, that’s totally cool.

Anthony Zhang  Yeah. So I mean, we have, at a high level, we’ve got almost a million bottles worth of wine. So yeah, we have over 10,000 clients globally, you know, they’re all putting in close to $10,000 each, so we have nearly $100 million worth of assets on custody.

Pancham Gupta  Awesome. Great. Well, thank you, Anthony for answering all those questions. We’ll be back after this message to go on to the second round. Do you ever feel overwhelmed by the thought that you have no time after work, and family time to learn about investing. Do you feel left behind that you are not putting your money to work for you? Do you want to create passive income but you do not know where to start? If so, I have good news for you. I have created an investor club which I call the gold color investor club for accredited investors, I will be putting together investing opportunities exclusively for this group. These are the opportunities where I have done my part of the due diligence for you, and we’ll be investing my own money alongside you. If you are interested, please sign up on the gold collar investor.com forward slash club, I repeat the gold collar investor.com forward slash club, I will reach out to schedule a 30 minute phone conversation to discuss your investing goals. Once you sign up, this can be a good opportunity to diversify and take some chips off the hands of Wall Street to produce some cash flow. And in case you are wondering, what is an accredited investor credited investor is someone who has earned more than 200,000 as filing single, or more than 300,000 Filing Jointly for the last two years. Another way to qualify as an accredited investor is if your total net worth is more than $1 million. Excluding your personal home. It includes your stocks, 401Ks, IRAs, cars, etc. Just not the equity in your personal home. If this is you, I would highly encourage you to sign up. So let’s move on to the second round. I call taking the leap Ron asked his questions to every guest on my show. My first question for you Anthony is when was the first time you invested out to the Wall

Anthony Zhang  Street. So this was I think maybe when I was 20 years old, I invested in my friend startup. So I was an angel investor, but a handsome $5,000 into this company. But it was my first taste of something that was not stocks or bonds.

Pancham Gupta  Awesome. Did you have any fears at the age of 22? When

Anthony Zhang  I, I just had so much faith in him. So I was like, I want to help you. Because when I started my first company, a lot of angel investors helped me What? No, I was a college dropout with no track record. So I just felt very compelled to do it.

Pancham Gupta  Awesome. So can you share with us one investment that did not go as expected?

Anthony Zhang  Probably also, angel investments. So

Pancham Gupta  right that $5,000?

Anthony Zhang  Thank you $1,000 is still is still moving, and his company still sort of thing. But I’d say statistically, you know, about 99% of companies fail or maybe over 90%. So definitely had a few either pivoted or just completely shut down in return on investment capital. And for me, just kind of realizing, hey, like, not everything is going gonna go up into the right. It’s me as an entrepreneur, I very well aware of that. But I think with investing into founders, right, it’s okay, if things don’t go well, the first time as long as you’re doing things with the right principles, I think always acting in the best interests of your customers and your shareholders, people are still going to trust you again, it’s at a certain point, it is a numbers game, right? There are many, many successful founders who have had failed startups before even many, many fields. So support, right? The Uber CEO, Travis Kalanick is a great example. I think that was his like, third or fourth company, Uber that he started and the rest were all failures. So I think that’s kind of my lesson there.

Pancham Gupta  Gone. Cool. So that’s awesome. My last question for you. And this is very specific for you. And because a lot of my listeners are in tech, they have these dreams that they want to do, and you’ve done it twice now started a company, but they’re sitting on the sidelines, they have these fears, they have all this better than tech or not intact, you know, whatever reason, they’re unable to get out of their fear, like what advice would you give to them who are thinking of investing, either in a startup or outside of Wall Street into Main Street?

Anthony Zhang  Yeah, I think for those people, right? You have to realize that the sort of faith that you’re taking, is also going to be a piece of education, right? If this is your first time investing in a startup or investing in cryptocurrency or a real estate project, right? Like you’re very apprehensive because you’re not an expert, but you’re never going to become an expert if you don’t start, right. So start with a small amount that you’re comfortable with losing and treat that as not just your investment principle but treat that as the price of education. I think you start to shift your mindset that way. becomes very worth it right? You already paid 10s of 1000s maybe hundreds of 1000s of dollars to get through school. And one of that get hit right. So if you put in 10k into an investment and you really dive in, you’re able to learn and become much more educated. I think that’s worth a lot right? Because that those are going to help to pay dividends in your investor journey for decades down the line.

Pancham Gupta  Yeah, that’s a great great advice and I tell you that that’s what’s called Real World University University of Hard Knocks right? Yeah. Where you go and and actually learn something from by investing are doing with your money then going to school and getting some grades in good job. So all right, and then that was great. You’ve added a ton of value and thanks for your time here. If people want to learn more about you connect with you, how can they reach you?

Anthony Zhang  So I really enjoyed this chat as well. So thanks so much for your time Pancham. I think for me I’m pretty accessible via email so Anthony@vinovest.com or if you want to say hi to me on Twitter, Anthony_J_Zhang so my first name middle initial and last name so please say hi to me either way.

Pancham Gupta  Sounds great. Thank you for your time. Awesome, thank you. Thank you for joining me today at The Gold Collar Investor Podcast I hope you learn something about wine and wine investing actually not about wines but mainly for about wine investing after listening to Anthony from Vinovest so if you have any interest definitely check them out. But that email me if you have any questions at p@thegoldcollarinvestor.com That’s again p@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. This is Pancham signing off. Until next time, take care.

Thank you for listening toThe Gold Collar Investor Podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of pension Gupta, visit us at www.thegoldcollarinvestor.com And follow us on Facebook at The Gold Collar Investor. The information on this podcast are opinions as always, please consult your own financial team before investing