TGCI 204: Former USAF firefighter fixing distressed apartments and making an impact

Top 6 Reasons To Invest Outside of Wall Street
Download this free e-book to find out why it's critical to your financial success and what the alternatives are.



Episode 204: Former USAF firefighter fixing distressed apartments and making an impact

Copy of EP #18 - 2 Guests

Summary

In today’s show, Pancham interviews Samuel Sells – impact investor, entrepreneur, and CEO of Wild Mountain Capital. 

Samuel has always been dedicated to making an impact and changing people’s lives. After he learned about real estate investing, he saw a win – win situation wherein he could make a difference and at the same time generate wealth for investors!

In this episode, learn from his story as he shares his passion and why he chose to focus on impact investing. He’ll also share why he chose to invest in apartments, how he syndicated his deals, and how he was able to help others by providing affordable housing.

PanchamHeadshotTGCI
Pancham Gupta
Screen Shot 2022-08-09 at 7.47.12 PM
Samuel Sells

Tune in to this show and enjoy!

Timestamped Shownotes:

Copy of Quote #00 - 1 Guest
  • 0:39 – Pancham introduces Samuel to the show
  • 4:14 – On making an impact as a USAF firefighter and as an investor
  • 8:32 – Prioritizing his investments that provide opportunities for others
  • 11:19 – Asset classes and markets that he currently focuses on
  • 14:26 – The investing approach that helped him during the market crash
  • 16:49 – Partnering with charities to provide affordable housing
  • 20:33 – What’s next for Wild Mountain Capital and their projects
  • 26:36 – Taking the Leap Round
  • 26:36 – His first investment outside of Wall Street in 2006
  • 26:46 – Overcoming his fears after knowing the risks of investing
  • 27:45 – How disagreements led to a deal that did not go as expected
  • 29:27 – Why you should look for partners that align with your goals
  • 31:01 – How you can connect with Samuel

3 Key Points:

  1. Impact investing to make people’s lives better – whether they’re fellow investors or charities – is one way to generate wealth and at the same time help the community.
  2. There are a lot of benefits when investing in apartments such as easier financing and renovating its units is also not difficult.
  3. You could employ good governance by solving management issues for tenants and be able to fix the social aspect of that property.

Get in Touch:

Read Full Transcript

(intro)

Welcome to the Gold Collar Investor Podcast, with your host Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high-paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams. Here’s your host, Pancham Gupta.

 

Hi. This is Russell Gray, co-host of the Real Estate Guys Radio Show, and you are listening to the Gold Collar Investor Podcast.

 

(interview)

 

Pancham Gupta

Welcome to the Gold Collar Investor Podcast. This is your host Pancham. I really appreciate you for tuning in today. My guest is Samuel Sells on the podcast. He is a retired US Air Force Officer and combat veteran. He founded Wild Mountain Holdings and its affiliates in 2018 with his hero dad. Sam started his real estate career in the early 2000s by funding and completing rehabs on numerous fixes and flips across several states. He learned these fundamental skills growing up in a home where construction was part of life. After serving a two-year mission in the late 90s, he began employment full-time in construction.

 

Sam worked as a residential and industrial electrician apprentice, then enlisted in the United States Air Force as a firefighter in the mid 2000s. In 2009, Sam was commissioned to be an officer and healthcare administrator for the Air Force. During his career he served as an international health specialist and global health expert with Air Force Special Operations in many countries and continents. Sam holds the distinction of being the only Air Force officer ever selected for the highly competitive fellowship with the United States Agency of International Development’s Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance.

 

As a member of the US Response Management Team for Ebola, Sam prepared and submitted a $1 billion foreign development and construction project proposal to the United States Congress House Ways and Means Committee. That was approved along with all the other formal requests for United States Department of Defense support to the global response. He then joined the United States Disaster Assistance Response Team in the country, and oversaw the grounds up design and build of 14,200 bed healthcare facilities in West Africa while navigating through numerous political and logistical quagmires, often requiring President Obama’s or the country’s US ambassadors’ assistance to overcome.

 

In 2019, Sam was selected to organize and lead a robust set of international teams’ effort on a multi-year 64 million redevelopment of 500-bed hospital in South Korea—the largest US contingency hospital in the world. Throughout his career, he has led teams on numerous other national and international development and redevelopment projects, totaling over 3 billion in value at the time of construction. Hey, Sam. Welcome to the show.

 

Samuel Sells

Thank you so much for having me on your show, Pancham.

 

Pancham Gupta

Well, thanks for your time here. I love the license plates that you have. People are watching on YouTube. Sam has like— how many? I can count here about 20 license plates of all different states where he’s been to. We’ll get into his traveling gig right here. Sam, before we get going here, are you ready to fire up my listeners break out of Wall Street investments?

 

Samuel Sells

Heck, yeah, man. I love talking about this stuff. I want to really see if we can change a little bit of our paradigm and think about things in a little bit different way. So, looking forward to the chat today.

 

Pancham Gupta

Awesome. All right. So, let’s get to it. Sam, why don’t you start with your background? How did you get started in the business? What you’re doing today, and more importantly, the person behind that background?

 

Samuel Sells

I’m married, have a few kids. Today is my son’s fifth birthday.

 

Pancham Gupta

Oh, happy birthday.

 

Samuel Sells

And so, Usher is running around right now losing his mind—as five-year-olds do—which is wonderful. With that shout out, I spent the better part of 12 years as a national health specialist. I got my master’s degree in health policy, global health, and just traveled, really, the world helping foreign countries, foreign militaries establish or hone their healthcare systems. Whether that’s working with a US ambassador and the country president, or local leadership, provincial leadership, or whatever it depends, the Minister of Health or whatever it was in that country. We were working in trying to help them develop and create sustainable healthcare systems. That included building — what they would say were clinics. They won’t really be defined as healthcare clinics here in America. I did that quite a bit on four different continents and just grew this real passion for how we align incentives, in a way that we can create sustainable systems that don’t have to be fed but they’d grow organically. Then I really grew a passion for healthcare security, financial security, and housing security. Now, real estate-wise, while I was back home early 2000s, I started flipping homes and made it through the 2008 crash just fine. We could talk a little bit more about that if you want to. I’ve been doing real estate specifically for quite a while now.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. So, you got into Air Force right out of college, or was it after?

 

Samuel Sells

No, after high school, I went into construction for a while. Then I went into the Air Force as a firefighter and started flipping homes on my off days.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Okay. All right. When you were in Air Force— you had done real estate before you got into Air Force, I guess. Right?

 

Samuel Sells

Yeah, before I had gotten in, and then I did it while I was in. I enlisted as a firefighter. I did that for six years, and then I became an officer with a Business Strategy degree from Brigham Young. I then continued to pursue that as a healthcare administrator, and then got my master’s degree and focused really on that global health aspect. I did that for 10 or 12 years.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. So, what’s your focus now? What’s your company’s focus now?

 

Samuel Sells

Currently, while I’m at Capital, really, as a way to drive investments into affordable housing, but not like big A affordable housing but workforce housing, housing that’s affordable, so forth, and so on. So, to do that, we also ended up — we buy really distressed apartment complexes. Distressed, like a 245-unit apartment complex that’s 60% occupied, that the owners had neglected and didn’t do what they were supposed to be doing. So, we’ll go in and buy at those places. It’s almost like flipping an apartment house, but you’re doing it on a very large-scale. Then you keep it. So, the equity growth is remarkable because you’re buying these things at a significant discount. Then when you get them up to speed, then they cashflow really well. That’s what we do in practice. But programmatically, we focus on creating a difference, impact investing, doing it in a way that falls under a capitalistic paradigm. So, if we can’t make a difference and we can’t make money doing it, then it’s not our mission. If there’s no margin, there’s no mission for us. So, we’re really focused on creating that impact and generating, creating wealth for our investors who take the ride with us.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. You were in real estate, and you got into Air Force, then into all these different continents and help the ministers, and then got back, continued as a real estate person, right? How did the apartment communities come about? You were doing single family home, right? How did that transition? How and when did that happen? Then I want to talk about the crash, and what you were doing before and right after.

 

Samuel Sells

Yeah, 2017, 2018, I really was like we’ve got to change, because I want to have a bigger impact than just doing a couple single family homes at a time. Flipping them, doing it again—I didn’t really want to do that full-time. I knew I was coming out of the Air Force in a couple years, going to retire. I wanted to have a bigger impact because I’ve been involved in such a major way in national policy creation, really, as well as implementation. So, I wanted to get to that. But you can’t do that on the healthcare landscape without a significant amount of equity at your fingertips. major amounts. Then healthcare within the US is very, very challenging, very, very complicated. So, I sat down with a couple members of my families. Like, “Hey, I really want to have an impact. You guys want to go in business with me? We will start — we’ll change people’s lives. We’re going to do it through real estate.” They said, “Yeah, great.” Then we did all the analysis. We started with mobile home parks. While I was still in the military, we bought 10 mobile home parks the first year. But really, it was that second one that we purchased, and it was barely making ends meet. Then within six months, we were netting $10,000 a month off of $100,000 investment.

 

Pancham Gupta

Oh, wow.

 

Samuel Sells

So, the first year, we pulled out $118,000. We had only put in $100,000.

 

Pancham Gupta

Oh, wow. Which year was this?

 

Samuel Sells

That was 2019.

 

Pancham Gupta

19?

 

Samuel Sells

Yes.

 

Pancham Gupta

In Texas?

 

Samuel Sells

That one was actually in Oklahoma. So, I was in Alaska at that time. My dad was doing all the construction work. I worked all the financial end of it, negotiations and everything else. So, that was the hook, line, and sinker we were in. This is fantastic. So then, we decided to go out and find investors. Because I maxed out our capability of doing it ourselves. Plus, we wanted to share. So, I’ve been involved in teams my whole career. There’s more than enough out there to provide opportunities for others to grow wealth. So, we wanted to share and we did that through — we learned that we could do that through syndication.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. That’s awesome. So, mobile home parks, is that what you’re doing today, or that was just one off?

 

Samuel Sells

That’s where we started mobile home parks. We did a storage facility, ground up development. That worked out really well for us. That, we turned over to a new operator recently. It’s been going fantastic. Then we got into apartments, really, in 2020, 21. Once we got into apartments, we realized that the financing is so much easier, the ability to come in and renovate units. We’ve started our own development company, because it was just so expensive to hire contractors. My dad worked for a construction company for 30 years. I was like, “Dad.” He said, “I’ll just find people.” He did. He built his own crew. In a year and a half, they’ve renovated 230 units, something like that.

 

Pancham Gupta

Oh, wow. 20 a month. Wow.

 

Samuel Sells

That’s usually across three or four properties. But each week, their crew has pushed out at least three units at a property.

 

Pancham Gupta

Wow. So, now you’re doing only apartments?

 

Samuel Sells

So, now we’re only doing apartments. Anything that’s above 150 units, we’ll take a look at it — primarily focused in the Dallas Fort Worth market. We also love Tulsa, Oklahoma’s market. We have properties there, but it’s harder to sell that to investors. Because people think, “Oh, Tulsa, Oklahoma. Ugh.” Look, I mean, if you’re a Main Street, Wall Street kind of guy, you’re thinking what’s my yield? Well, our yield in Tulsa is fantastic. So, if you’re good with that and you can overcome this mindset that Oklahoma is terrible, then you can capture the yield.

 

Pancham Gupta

That’s awesome. Only reason that you actually switched over from mobile home parks—which was so good work for you so well—to apartments was mainly the ease of financing and renovation of the units were easier?

 

Samuel Sells

That’s it. When 2020 happened, we had six or seven refinances. We’ve come in to mobile home parks. We executed our business plan. We got into position to go refinance. We were working on the refinances. COVID happened, and all of that stopped. For financing apartments, that picked up really quickly. But it was really slow with mobile homes. So, what we did was we ordered a ton of mobile homes, brand new mobile homes. It has taken us almost two years to get brand new homes delivered. So, it just crushed us on the capitalization plan, and it crushed us on the new home infill plan.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it.

 

Samuel Sells

But we don’t face those issues in the apartment. And so, yeah.

 

Pancham Gupta

Alright. So, let me go back now in time when you we’re doing single family flips in early 2000. Were you doing it at the time of crash, too? Like 2006, 7, 8?

 

Samuel Sells

Yeah, I got into it 2006. When the market crashed, I had two homes that we were selling. I just got on the market right as everything was crashing. Lehman Brothers was out of business, and nobody wanted to finance anything. We bought these homes for $50,000. They were in Downtown San Antonio, Texas. Fantastic market, great location, lower middle class—which always has demand for those homes. There’s always demand for those homes. Guess what? We spent $15,000 in renovations. We had them back on the market for 130 for one of them, 115 for the other. The market crashed. Both of our buyers— we’ve got it under contract. Within weeks, both of the buyers bailed out. They couldn’t close because they couldn’t get financing. One of those we said, “Well, let’s just turn this one into a rental, hold up for a couple of years, refinance, and then we’ll sell. The other one, we’re like “Well, okay. So, let’s move it down from 130 to 115, 120. Put it back on the market. It’s all closed. Done.” Remember, I’d spent $15,000 or $20,000 of cash. We’re all in at 70. We sold it for 115. What’s the spread on that? $45,000. We were just fine.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. After the crash, what did you do? You kept doing this? Did you take a pause? What happened?

 

Samuel Sells

We ended up taking a little bit of a pause, partly because of that and partly because of what I was doing in the military at that time. I got deployed. So, we took that one property that didn’t sell. We put that into a rental, and I kept that for 10 years as a rental house. As soon as I got back from deployment, we got things sorted out. I went right back into flipping homes on the East Coast, because we were up in Massachusetts. So then, we went up there and started flipping homes up there.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Cool. That’s quite a story and background that you have. Now, at this point, are you syndicating all of your deals? How are you structuring that? Actually, before that, you said that you have your dad who’s doing the rehabs for you, right?

 

Samuel Sells: Yeah, so he runs a construction company that we started, Wild Mountain Development, and they do all the rehab. So, we’re going to start reaching out or probably marketing that company here soon. Because we found that we’re just so much faster at it. We save about $1,000 to $2,000 per unit over the lowest we’ve seen from anybody else. So, if you’re talking $1,000 or $2,000 a unit over 230 units, we’ve saved $400,000 to $500,000 by using our own company in the past year. That’s significant, right? That’s significant. The units are walk in easy or units that are down to studs. They’ll do all of it. You have to hire local professionals for your electrical and your plumbing, or the city gets really mad at you. So, we do that. But anything that we don’t have to hire a licensed professional, that’s a locally licensed person to do, then we’ll do. We do have some licensed folks on our staff that do H back and so forth. But there is that.

 

We also own and operate our own property management company. Now we partner with lots of charities, because we work in the workforce housing section, and we do have — we are willing to take Section 8 residents. People hear Section 8, they’re like, “Oh, my goodness. That’s terrible.” For two reasons, they say, “Oh, I drove by a Section 8 place, and it was gunshots and broken windows and broken cars everywhere.” Well, that’s an ownership issue, a management issue, right? If you’re allowing people in your apartment complex to be unsafe, to do really dumb things, then that’s your problem. You need to stop. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are Section 8. It has everything to do with what you allow. So, you have to employ good governance.

 

The second piece is, well, market rents versus HUD rates. What people don’t understand is that you can increase Section 8 vouchers. You can increase what the city pays. So, we get pretty dang close to market rents. A lot of times we get market rents with vouchers. You just have to know how to use or work the system. But there’s also charities, all sorts of charities—women and crisis, Catholic, there’s Rainwater charities. There’s all these different charities, groups that will support and help residents who need to pay, to get their units paid. Because we built our own property management company—they have about 30 employees now—we’re able to act with those. They also get access to educational services, Boys and Girls Club and so forth, like all these different things.

 

What does that mean to the property and to an investor? Well, if a property has a lower turnover, you have lower expense ratios. You’re not missing rents, because the unit’s getting cleaned up and everything else. Okay. So, that makes the property more profitable. You have guaranteed rents or a lot of guaranteed rents. Not all of them, because we have a mixture. Your receivables is far lower. Your collections rate is far lower. So, it just becomes a much more profitable complex because our team is so open and vastly capable.



Pancham Gupta

Yeah, that’s awesome. Cool. This is great. Are you also raising capital actively now? What’s next? Are you doing per project? Do you have funds? How are you syndicating your deals?

 

Samuel Sells

Yeah, we syndicate and we also work with institutional partners. Our last project in Dallas Fort Worth, we closed with an institutional partner. They wrote a single check. We worked a joint venture with them, and we closed the deal. They’re a multibillion-dollar company. They’ve been in real estate for a long time. They did an extremely, thorough review of us, my team, our financials, everything else. We came out on the other side looking great. It’s been a great relationship. The project is working far better than what they’d performed. My teams do in the development aspect. My teams do in the property management aspects. They’re very happy with all of those things.

 

We also syndicate, like you said. We do it on a per deal basis. I think, at some point, we’ll do a fund. My concern with the fund is that while it provides me more flexibility, it actually can reduce the amount of profit investors get. In fact, it does reduce the amount of profit investors get access to. It does lower their risk a little bit, because you’re spreading it across the deals. So, that’s the tradeoffs. Right now, we’re going to raise capital. We have a deal coming down. That’ll be a 506(c), so I can share it right here with you. But it’s a little bit smaller. 154 units in Fort Worth. What we do that’s different is, we went to the city council. We talked to them about the deal. We talked to them about the property. They told us all the millions of dollars they’re investing on that street and what they’re doing. We’re talking about how we’re going to get governance and secure the property, and do all this stuff. We are also buying it at a steep discount. To the market, we know that the upside is significant. We get connected to the charity organizations that are in that area. Plus, we have working relationships with other charities in Fort Worth. So, when we get a hold of that property, environmental, social governance—I know those are really cool hashtags that people put of big companies. But that’s stuff that we legitimately do because we have to. You have to employ great governance. You have to fix the social aspect of that property. By doing that — we’ve done this now 20 something times — we know what we’re doing. Now we’re going there, and we’re going to go execute.

 

What is different than what anything else, when you invest on Wall Street, where does your money go? Do you know where that money goes? No. You may know. You may know that the broker for that company, he just bought a new Ferrari because he’s tired of driving Lamborghinis. You just pay for a part of that, because you got to pay the broker’s fee. It goes into a massive pot and it’s gone. Then you just see your number of stocks go up or down. Do you get cash flow from that? Maybe, if you’re on a dividend system, but it’s super hard. You get taxed crazy in that system. Whether you hate Trump or love him, he made the tax code so amazingly wonderful for real estate investors. Because depreciation, bonus, appreciation. We’ll talk about that stuff forever. But what I want you to know is, as an investor, when you’re coming into a syndication like ours, you get access. You own a piece of the property. You know what we’re doing. You can see the pictures; you can see the updates. You know the structure is all right before you. You know exactly where every single dollar you invest goes. It makes the world better. It makes that apartment complex better. It makes the community better. It improves your life. You’re going to build wealth out that system. Uncle Sam is going to give you a whole ton of depreciation expense. You lower your tax burden — totally legal. For one, you’re saying I’m not just making money off this deal. I’m making people’s lives better at the same time. Where else can you get that?

 

Pancham Gupta

Yeah, I totally agree with you. All right. Sam, this has been awesome. Thanks so much for this. We will be back after a short message.

 

(break)

 

If you’re an accredited investor and have been thinking about putting your money to work for you, then I have a good news for you. I have created an investor club which I call the Gold Collar Investor Club. I will be putting together investing opportunities exclusively for the group. These are the opportunities where I have done the due diligence for you and will be investing my own money alongside you.

 

If you are interested, please sign up on thegoldcollarinvestor.com/club. I repeat thegoldcollarinvestor.com/club. I will reach out to schedule a 30-minute phone conversation to discuss your investing goals once you sign up. This can be a good opportunity to diversify and take some chips off the hands of Wall Street to produce some passive income. And in case you are wondering what is an accredited investor, accredited investor is someone who has earned more than $200,000 as filing single or more than $300,000 filing jointly for the last two years. Another way to qualify as an accredited investor is if your total net worth is more than $1 million, excluding your personal home. It includes your stocks, 401Ks, IRAs, cars, et cetera — just not the equity in your personal home. If this is you, I would highly encourage you to sign up.

 

(interview)

 

Pancham Gupta

Sam, let’s move on to the second part of the show where I ask these four questions to every guest on my show. My first question for you is, when was the first time you invested outside of Wall Street?

 

Samuel Sells

First time I invested outside of Wall Street was 2006.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Did you have any fears at the time when you did your first deal there?

 

Samuel Sells

Buffett talks about investing for the long-term. He says that’s our problem today, it’s we really want short-term gains. So, my nervousness was Wall Street you learn about in high school a little bit. You go on the news, and everyone’s talking about all these great stocks. So, you invest because you just believe all these talking bobbleheads that actually have no money in the deals that they’re asking you to invest in. They have no risk. But now I was taking all the risks by buying the real estate myself. No partners. Well, I think the first one I did with a partner. I felt like I was taking all the risk. So, I had to overcome that fear of the risk. As it turned out, I’ve made so much more money from real estate than I ever made in stocks. Period.

 

Pancham Gupta

So, that’s the story for people who get hooked on. So, let me ask you the third question. Can you share with us one deal where it did not go as expected?

 

Samuel Sells

Yeah, so, let me tell you about the project we were buying last year. So, we were buying the deal. It was a 245-unit property, 60% occupied, clean. Everything was going great in the beginning. But all of a sudden, the equity partner—because we were using an investment firm—they didn’t like our lender. So, the lender and the equity partner got into a fight. We’re on the side, like, “Hey, let’s just all be friends.” Our equity partner has a really good point. The lender was like, “No, we’re not changing that thing in the contract.” They ended up both splitting because they were like, “We’re not going to work with this guy.” Our equity partner was like, “You got to bring a new lender.” We had a mortgage broker involved in that thing, and so it just became this huge issue. I said, “Okay. Good. I’m going to go find my own lender. Then we’re going to go find our own equity.” We did. It took a bunch, a lot of work, a lot of stress. But we closed the deal on the end, and it has turned out to be a fantastic deal for us.

 

Pancham Gupta

Great. So, no money lost. Maybe some time lost, some gray hair.

 

Samuel Sells

Definitely, gray hair. The deal became more expensive to us to close, because we had to buy extensions and so forth. But then, in the end, the deal worked.

 

Pancham Gupta

Yeah, great. My last question for you is, what is one piece of advice would you give to people who are thinking of investing in Main Street that is outside of Wall Street?

 

Samuel Sells: Two main pieces of advice that I’d give. Sorry. Not one, two. One, if you’re going to be a passive investor, you want to invest and you want to go live your life. You want to go sit on the beach. You want to go zipline in Costa Rica. You want to just work and enjoy your day. Find a great syndicator who also operates. Because their interests are completely aligned with yours. If the property is not profitable, they are not profitable. There’s a lot of syndicators out there who don’t actually do any operations. Find somebody like us. There’s many more out there who actually do the operations, oversee the whole thing, and know the deal intimately.

Two, if you want to be on the active side of investing, find a partner that you can work with to do that, particularly in the beginning. It will make your journey so much smoother and easier if you find an operating partner like us or somebody like us who can help you in your journey, build your own company, to do those things. I didn’t do that in the beginning and I — gray, you see this gray? Only that. Most people fail, right? The path for success is partnering with somebody who’s excellent. They’ve already learned those lessons, so you don’t have to learn them the hard way.

 

Pancham Gupta

Great advice. Well, thank you, Sam, for your time here. How can people connect with you if they want to find out more on what you’re doing and all the good stuff?

 

Samuel Sells

Yeah, thank you so much for having me on the pod. If you want to reach out to me, you can reach me at sam@wildmountaincapital.com. You can find me on my website, www.wildmountaincapital.com all spelled out. You can also find me on LinkedIn, Samuel Sells; Twitter @cleanmoneysam. I just started my own podcast talking about clean money, the difference of investing in a way that makes an impact. You know where your dollars are going. Because this is 2022, folks. We should know where our dollars are going. You should have that information. So, let’s do it. Let’s change the world and make our partners or people you invest with provide that information to us. We can do better.

 

Pancham Gupta

Awesome. Well, thank you, Sam, for your time here.

 

Samuel Sells

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on the pod.

 

Pancham Gupta

Thank you for joining me today. If you have any questions, feel free to email me at p@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. That’s p—as in paul—@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. Thank you for joining. Signing off. Take care.

 

(outro)

Thank you for listening to the Gold Collar Investor Podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of Pancham Gupta, visit us at www.thegoldcollarinvestor.com and follow us on Facebook @thegoldcollarinvestor. The information on this podcast are opinions. As always, please consult your own financial team before investing.

Copy of EP #18 - 2 Guests

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.