TGCI 216: Elementary School Principal to Owning Mobile Home & RV Park Communities

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Episode 216: Elementary School Principal to Owning Mobile Home & RV Park Communities

Copy of EP #18 - 2 Guests

Summary

In today’s show, Pancham interviews Ryan Hill – mobile home parks owner, operator, and chief operating officer of Suncrest Capital LLC.

Leaving his safety net behind was his best decision ever made. With over 19 investments in communities, 13 years of experience, and over $50 million in assets under management, he continues to drive operational efficiency in each community and continues to satisfy clients, investors, and tenants!

What are mobile home parks? How do we analyze and manage these deals? What makes it different from RV parks? Does it generate good cash flow? Get the answers to these and more as he shares all about mobile home parks! Don’t miss out as he’ll also share his mindset shift on leaving his career in education to take a leap at real estate investing.

PanchamHeadshotTGCI
Pancham Gupta
Screen Shot 2022-11-21 at 5.39.16 PM
Ryan Hill

Tune in to this show and enjoy!

Copy of Quote #00 - 1 Guest

Timestamped Shownotes:

  • 0:39 – Pancham introduces Ryan to the show
  • 1:38 – On educating himself on mobile home parks investments
  • 7:29 – Insights learned from his first mobile home park investment
  • 14:14 – Scaling up through vertical integration with the property management
  • 17:54 – His current criteria when analyzing his potential investments
  • 21:20 – RV parks and how they differ from mobile home parks
  • 24:36 – Bible reading, workouts, and office calls to headstart his day
  • 26:45 – Taking the Leap Round
  • 26:45 – House hacking as his 1st leap into real estate investing
  • 27:19 – Overcoming his fear of not understanding how investments work
  • 28:17 – Why his 3-fund portfolio did not work out as expected
  • 30:01 – Importance of networking and having trust
  • 31:12 – How you can connect with Ryan

3 Key Points:

  1. Having an investing partner who has different skill sets and making the right connections would help with complementing your own skill set.
  2. Managing 19 parks or 140 parks makes little difference and takes the same amount of time, thus it’s ideal to scale up to optimize potential income flow.
  3. Automated systems make it easier to manage these investments as it allows you to focus on other aspects such as communication.

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Read Full Transcript

(intro)

Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast, with your host, Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high-paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams. Here’s your host, Pancham Gupta.

 

Tom Burns

Hi. This is Tom Burns, author of Why Doctors Don’t Get Rich? You’re listening to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast with Pancham Gupta.

 

Pancham Gupta

Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. This is your host, Pancham. I really appreciate you for tuning in today. My guest is Ryan Hill on the podcast. Ryan is the Chief Operating Officer of Suncrest Capital, LLC. He is responsible for driving operational efficiency in each community. He works closely with community managers to ensure optimal occupancy and expenses. Ryan has over 13 years of experience as a real estate agent, directly involved in over $41 million in sales. Brian is a mobile home park owner and operator. He holds a degree in Biology from Central Washington University, a master’s degree in Technology in Education from Lesley University, and principal certification from Seattle Pacific University.

 

(interview)

 

Pancham Gupta

Ryan, welcome to the show.

 

Ryan Hill

Thank you. I’m looking forward to talking to you.

 

Pancham Gupta

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your time. Before we get started, are you ready to fire up my listeners break out of Wall Street investments?

 

Ryan Hill

Absolutely. Let’s do it.

 

Pancham Gupta

Let’s do this. Ryan, tell us about your background, how you got started into the business where you’re in and, more importantly, the person behind that background.

 

Ryan Hill

Sure. So, my most recent background, I just stepped out of education where I was a school teacher. I taught high school science for 13 years. Then I moved into administration where I was an elementary school principal for seven years, and then a couple of years of coaching other teachers in between there as well.

 

While I was doing that, I was also a residential real estate agent for 13 years. My family and I, when we moved from Washington State to Idaho, about three and a half years ago, I didn’t want to restart residential real estate. Everything was on referrals at that point. I didn’t want to restart my client base. I had been educating myself on the mobile home park space for a few years before that move, connecting with other park owners, other investors just to learn as much as I could. My wife and I found our first little mobile home park after we moved to Idaho — in the Midwest, in Kansas. We bought that. It’s about a 19 space park. So, that started the journey into where we are now with Suncrest Capital.

 

Pancham Gupta

How long ago was that?

 

Ryan Hill

About two and a half years ago.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. When did you move to Idaho?

 

Ryan Hill

About three and a half years ago. My business partner, Brett Bowman, he works in tech. We met through a mutual friend, an acquaintance. He was actually my son. He’s 15. He’s a budding entrepreneur. He started a candle business when he was nine years old, and now he’s flipping sneakers. He started a lawn mowing business. He was mowing this mutual friend’s lawn, who came out and talked to me. I had just gotten back from that first park that my wife and I bought. He said, “Hey, I was just talking to my friend about buying a mobile home park.” I said no way. So, we met. We connected at Starbucks down the street.

 

There was another park just down the street, maybe a mile, that was off market that I knew about. But all my money was tied up in this first one. So, it was a happy circumstance that these guys were interested. So, we partnered on that second one. It was another smaller one. Brett, he had done syndications with multifamily before he invested in various asset classes. He’s very good with underwriting. We started syndicating larger properties. Now we’re up to 19 communities 1100 25 spaces, a little over 50 million in assets under management.

 

Pancham Gupta

Awesome. That’s a great story. So, your partner, Brett, is he still in tech?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, he is. He balances it really well, very bright with everything we’re doing on the financial side, investor relations, syndication. We started an open-ended fund a few months ago. We’re focusing most of our future acquisitions through that fund. There’s pros and cons with fund versus syndication for specific deals. But we’re pretty bullish on pursuing that now.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Okay. Going back to your story where you were a high school teacher and principal and coaching bunch of other teachers. How did you think? Talk to us about that, way back. How did you think about getting into real estate? What was the trigger? What got you into studying about it? At this point, you are full time into this, correct?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, I retired from education about five months ago now.

 

Pancham Gupta

Congratulations.

 

Ryan Hill

Thanks. Yeah, it’s exciting. It’s a little scary to make that leap. I think a lot of people started with Rich Dad Poor Dad. I was reading that book back in my early 20s and not really understanding how to do that. But I was actually doing it at the time — house hacking, where I had bought my first house.

 

I had two roommates. They were paying the majority of the mortgage on it. So, that just started the spark of interest in real estate, and then becoming a real estate agent myself and helping other investors, and just homeowners like first-time homebuyers, that type of stuff. Really, starting to see as working with more investors, studying that more, and just seeing the power of the investment piece versus just the commission piece coming in on selling a home, which is great, but it doesn’t last for very long.

 

Pancham Gupta

Right. So, would you say it was Rich Dad Poor Dad?

 

Ryan Hill

I think that was the spark, and then just making connections with people. You start shifting your mindset as you talk to investors, meet investors. The idea of I never own, something like that. Then you start making those subtle mind shifts to, why aren’t I doing that, and I can do that. You’re just making the connections with the right people to balance your skillset with theirs. So, that’s where Brett and I balanced really well on that side. I handle most of the operations. My background is like a principal and leading other adults and leading processes. It really translates well to the work that I’m doing now, overseeing operations for Suncrest.

 

Pancham Gupta

Okay. All right. It sounds great. Let’s talk about your first park. You got that with your wife when you moved here. Can you share with us the numbers on that, how you found it? What were the numbers? Did you do the underwriting and how? What kind of loan did you get? What kind of down payment?

 

Ryan Hill

That park, I had been searching for about a year. I had visited a few. This one, it wasn’t on my radar for a while. I was a looking at LoopNet, Crexi, those sites. I found this one. It just kept popping back up. It had been on the market a long time. The reason why is the seller really didn’t have any financials to be able to get a loan on it. So, $269,000 was the purchase price on it. I’d actually flown into St. Louis to look at a community just outside of St. Louis.

 

When I got there, I was going to be there for four days for due diligence. I met the owner. We walked that park. There are just red flags all over the place. One of the manufactured homes, one entire side of the siding was off. It was just exposed — insulation, with some plastic. We walked into a house of snakes, is what I call it.

 

Pancham Gupta

This is a different one, right?

 

Ryan Hill

This is a different one. So, I’ll be short on this one. We walked into one of the bedrooms that this resident was breeding snakes, like all kinds of snake — poisonous or whatever. From floor to ceiling, all the way up, on all of the walls were shelves with snake containers. I was like, “No, thanks.”

 

So, I’m stuck in February in St. Louis for another three days. So, I decided I would go. I drove to Kansas, just south of Kansas City. I met the owner. We had a handshake deal. It was listed with a broker, but it needed owner financing. So, I had a 5.5% interest rate on that. It was a 15-year amortization with a three-year balloon on it. I put $83,000 down on it, I believe. It’s been a little while now.

 

But anyway, I had underwritten myself. Now, looking back at that basic underwriting, it was very, very basic compared to what we’re doing now. We have a team in India that does the initial underwriting for us. Then Brett underwrites it. Then another good partner, Matt, he’s really good with underwriting. That has become very, very different. Much better now. It cash flowed.

 

It needed a lot of work. Most of them were park-owned homes. So, there’s tenant-owned homes where the tenant owns their home. Park-owned homes — we’re renting the home, but we have to take care of clogged toilets or furnaces that break down. We don’t like that model too much. There’s some that do. We prefer that the tenants own their home, and we want to give tenants pride of ownership and give them opportunity to purchase a home in the communities, too.

 

Really, what we were looking for is land lease. I turned over 90% of those tenants within a year and a half for various reasons. The previous owner didn’t ever do any background checks. He let tenants pay late and get well behind. Very nice guy, big heart. But it didn’t translate into tenants that were paying on time, really, and are taking care of the community. So, we’ve transitioned it. I’ve been able to refinance out of that about a year ago now.

 

Pancham Gupta

Before we get into refinance, a couple of questions. How many tenant-owned homes out of 19?

 

Ryan Hill

There were 13 tenant-owned homes.

 

Pancham Gupta

Okay. Majority.

 

Ryan Hill

There’s a couple of vacant lots. Sorry. There were 13 park-owned homes, and then 3 tenant-owned homes.

 

Pancham Gupta

Okay. So, 13 park-owned homes. Since then, you’ve converted how many?

 

Ryan Hill

About half of those, we’ve been able to convert to lease-to-own or trying to sell them off. That’s the goal. It takes some time to do that. Some of these still need a level of rehab on them to get them to a place where people want to buy them and that kind of thing.

 

Pancham Gupta

How many vacant lots you had out of 19?

 

Ryan Hill

There were— 1, 2, 3, 4—

 

Pancham Gupta

Were you able to put new homes there?

 

Ryan Hill

Not yet. We’ve put an RV in one of them. The other park we have on the same town, we’ve had to demo some homes, just older homes that weren’t habitable, more cost-effective to remodel. There’s a vacant home in that first park. We still need to do that, too. So, it still requires that — they can be capital intensive upfront.

 

Pancham Gupta

Yeah, for sure. Basically, you bought it for 269, you said. You put in like 83-ish, right? Then how much money have you put in on top of this before you go to the refinance?

 

Ryan Hill

Probably about 60,000.

 

Pancham Gupta

340,000 approximately, total. The bank financed you the other parts. Now you did all that work since you owned it. Now you said you refinanced. How much was the appraised value after you’ve done some of that work?

 

Ryan Hill

The appraised value was — I’m trying to remember now. I think it was about $340,000 at the time of the refi. Then as we add additional tenants — obviously, the lot rent, it compounds. The cap rate and everything — I believe once we’re fully stabilized, it will be up in the $500,000 range or so.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Were you able to cash out some of that equity?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, we cashed out about $55,000.

 

Pancham Gupta

Okay. So, you’re basically about 85,000-ish or 90,000, approximately. Nice. That’s pretty awesome. Now that you have $90,000 with your debt payment, it’s still cash flowing, right?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, it’s still cash flowing. It pays for some life things. So, I can’t complain. There’s still upside left on it. That one was a launching pad for the rest. It’s where I cut my teeth and learned a lot of hard, expensive lessons along the way. Now we’re learning new lessons on a bigger scale. It can be more expensive sometimes.

 

Pancham Gupta

Right. So, you got that 19 units, 19 pads. Now, what’s the biggest park you have?

 

Ryan Hill

140 is the largest now. When I was first starting, I heard in a 19 pad, a 140 pad, you’re going to spend the same amount of time on them. I was like, how’s that possible? Yes, it’s possible. Sometimes I spend more time on the smaller park with small town and small-town politics.

 

Pancham Gupta

Right. So, how do you manage these, either the 19 space or the 140?

 

Ryan Hill

We have a nice vertical integration with our property management. Most of our communities are in the Midwest. It’s Kansas, Iowa, Missouri. We have two parks in Sun Valley, Idaho, that we’re minority owners on. But all of our main parks that we own are around three hours of Kansas City. So, we have regional managers that live around the Kansas City area. Now we have a regional manager up in Iowa, just because we’ve grown so much. So, their responsibility is to communicate the daily operations with the park managers.

 

A lot of the parks, it’s a one-to-one manager. In some of our parks, we have two managers that oversee five different parks. But it’s the economy of scale with Springfield, Missouri, for example. We just closed on the sixth park portfolio. We already have four in the areas. We are about 10 communities in that area. So, the managers, those parks aren’t very far from each other so they can take care of issues as they come up, or let us know when when things are happening.

 

Pancham Gupta

Nice. Okay. Great. Well, thanks for sharing all the numbers and the details on your first park. Given what you know, and given that you had quit your full-time career, I have one philosophy question for you. Were you scared at the time when you quit that? What was going through your mind when you were taking this leap and moving to Idaho?

 

Ryan Hill

Definitely, nerve-wracking. There’s a level of uncertainty, for sure, especially with a new company. If we don’t do as well as we think, do I have to go back and be education principal again — which I loved. It was a great career. But now you’re doing your own health care. With education and the state job, you have a pension, essentially. There’s a safety net there.

 

Pancham Gupta

Absolutely. Yeah.

 

Ryan Hill

So, leaving that safety net to a little bit more of the unknown, the couple sleepless nights on that, wrestling with it. But to get to where we want to as a family financially, and be able to give back and help other people the way that we want to and to support our family, this was the decision that we made. So far, it’s been a great one.

 

Pancham Gupta

So, if you have to go back, any regrets? Anything that you would like to add? Anything you would change?

 

Ryan Hill

No. Really, no regrets. I knew in my heart it was the time to make the move and transition. I miss the people I worked with. I miss seeing the kids every day. But I don’t miss a lot of the headaches with adult problems, adult issues in that setting. Now I have adult problems to deal with, issues that I have to deal in this setting, but it’s different.

 

Pancham Gupta

Cool. So, let’s move on and talk about your current business. Are you syndicating these deals? Are you raising capital to buy these parks? What’s your current criteria? What’s the smallest size you would buy? In what parts of the country?

 

Ryan Hill

A lot of layers to that. The Midwest, we love — just talking about the economy of scale piece. In the Springfield, Missouri area, we have a contracting company that works pretty much exclusively for us. They’ve grown with us, so they’ve replaced full infrastructure for communities — sewer, water, electric — to just rehabbing homes.

 

We purchased a smaller park. It was 26 spaces in Springfield area, just because we have that economy of scale. But if it was going to be somewhere in Denver, Colorado, we might buy one that’s small because it’s a great market. But usually, we’re looking for 100 plus spaces to break into a new market. We have to establish all new contractors and managers and everything. So, that’s tough.

 

This last portfolio we purchased was a little over 90% occupied, so it’s already stabilized. Most of the stuff that we are looking for and finding is between 60% to 70% occupied, so that as you infill these communities — depending on what the lot rent is — I can buy a used home for 20,000, move it for 6,000 to 8,000. Rehab it a little bit. I might be 30, 35,000 in, but I’m adding 40,000 to 50,000 of value to the property depending on what the cap rate is at the time and the lot rent that you’re getting on.

 

So, we really liked that model of infilling and adding value that way, as well as increasing rents gradually. There are some companies out there, and they tend to make the news. They’ll come in and maybe double lot rents from $250 to $500. But for people that are living in our communities that are economically in a certain range, they can’t absorb that type of raise.

 

It’s a socially responsible type of investing that we believe in. We want great returns for investors. We have a minimum pay percent. IRRs that we look for are 20%. That’s typically what we’re looking for. Do we always hit it? No. But we’re 18% to 20% consistently on the different deals that we’re getting. That’s with moderate, mild to moderate rent increases, year over year.

 

These tenants are sticky. I think it’s over 80% of mobile homes. Once they land at a lot, they never move just because that cost 6,000 to 8,000. People that are living in those communities don’t have to move now. The bigger the park, the better for us — that we’re looking. We love city utilities, but we’ve purchased parks with lagoons, with wastewater treatment plants, with septic systems. We look for opportunities to convert those to city utilities because that helps compress the cap rate, along with adding communities to a region as well. We can compress the cap rates.

 

Pancham Gupta

Alright. We were talking pre-show a little bit. You said that you also have RV parks. Can you talk about them? How are they different from mobile home parks?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, the RV park that we have is just south, about 40 minutes of those first couple parks that we bought. It used to be a KOA, like in the ’80s and ’90s.

 

Pancham Gupta: It was what?

 

Ryan Hill

It was a KOA Kampground, a higher-end RV and campsite ground. Then somebody decided to put mobile homes on half of the property, and it killed the KOA. Since then, those mobile homes have all been removed. But we’ve come in and we’re just revamping it, breathing new life into this RV park that had all these infrastructure issues. This one is a mixed model. In some RV parks, they operate very much like a mobile home park with long-term tenants. They’re going to have skirting on their RVs and maybe a storage container or something in there. They’re living there permanently or long term.

 

This one has a mix. So, we have some long-term, and then we have several spaces for short-term. So, it’s more of a hotel model. There’s more income produced with short-term stays than the long-term. But you like the long-term, stable income as well. This one also has six deluxe cabins. It’s like glamping cabins. We have two of them on Airbnb right now. The others, we’re renovating to put on Airbnb in the near future. Those have been very popular. They’re booked pretty consistently. There’s a lot more revenue streams for RV parks. So, you have a camp store and merchandise. You can sell access to Wi Fi. There’s a lot more that you can do on the income-producing side in an RV park.

 

Pancham Gupta

From a management point of view, from your side of the things, isn’t it more difficult to manage?

 

Ryan Hill

If you have automations in place — we use Campspot, which is the online booking. We have onsite managers. They live in a home on the property. So, it’s more communication with them for sure. Overall, it’s really not as much management as you might think when you have systems automized.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Okay. All right. Cool. Which one is your preference?

 

Ryan Hill

The mobile home parks are our bread and butter. I enjoy the RV parks just because there’s more variety. We’re putting in a laundry facility and trying to figure out Wi Fi systems for residents or for people coming in. There’s a swimming pool. I want to go and visit that one because of the swimming pool and that kind of stuff. They’re both great, but I think the RV park is more fun. Mobile home parks are just solid bread and butter, consistent type of asset.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Cool. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I have one more question for you, and then we’ll move on to the second part of the show. My question is, do you have a morning routine that you follow? If so, what is it? Do you think that attributes to your success?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, so it’s changed a little bit since I’m going full-time into this. I’m part of a men’s workout group. It’s called F3. Early morning, at 6am, it’s outside workout — rain, snow, shine, wind, whatever. That’s about a 45-minute workout. I do that. Then I do my Bible reading every morning as well. It just helps set the scope of my day and just really focus on what’s important. Then I start my day with a meeting with our executive assistant just to get organized. Make sure we’re working on all of the pieces that we needed to meeting deadlines, investor relations, et cetera. So, that’s the normal morning routine, with a couple of cups of coffee to power it up. It has worked well for me.

 

Pancham Gupta

Great. Well, thank you for sharing that. We’ll be back after this message.

 

(break)

 

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(interview)

 

Pancham Gupta

Ryan, let’s move on to the second part of the show which I call Taking the Leap Round. I ask these four questions to every guest on the show. My first question for you is, when was the first time you invested outside of Wall Street? Was it that house hack you did?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, it was. I was renting the house from my uncle and his friend who had renovated it. I bought it from them. Yeah, the house hack was my first leap into investing in real estate.

 

Pancham Gupta

How long ago was that?

 

Ryan Hill

That was a couple years out of college. I’m 46 now. So, at least 22 years ago.

 

Pancham Gupta

Got it. Did you have any fears?

 

Ryan Hill

I didn’t understand the loan documents when the loan officer came over the house. I actually backed out the first time, because I panicked. I just fear, I guess, of not understanding and not knowing and understanding interest rates and all that. It’s just knowing nothing, really.

 

Then a couple months later, I was like, okay, let’s dive back in. So, I did it. I dove in. I already have the roommates in there so they ended up staying. I left that home and got a third roommate. So, I was making some money. Sorry. I guess, not my roommate. I was cash flowing a little bit for me as I was caretaking my grandparent’s house at the time. It was a good experience. I made some money on the sale. All in all, I had a pretty good first experience with that.

 

Pancham Gupta

Nice. My third question for you, can you share with us one investment that did not go as expected?

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, there was a three-part portfolio. One of the properties in Springfield that we purchased, we predicted roughly 50% of the tenants would move out, or we would need to move out, as really a rough community needed infrastructure replaced. It had septic systems, septic tanks that where if it rained hard, they would leak and surface. So, you’d actually have waste run along the ground, which isn’t great.

 

We had five sex offenders in there, as well. The first time I visited it, before I even knew these are tier three sex offenders. It’s like the lifetime registered. There are kids and families in this community. I was trying to protect that. So, we had a number of people that we had to move out slower. It’s been slower to get people back in as we’ve been repairing infrastructure. So, that part we’ve had to do. That’s the only one we’ve had to delay returns on for investors just because of the different issues that cropped up after we purchased it.

 

But we now are almost done with the sewer conversion to city sewer. The entire water infrastructure is about to be replaced, and the electric infrastructures can be upgraded. We have brand new homes that we’ve ordered that are ready to start coming into there. So, it really is a regeneration of this property, which we’re excited about. But it’s taken a lot longer and it has cost more than we initially thought it would.

 

Pancham Gupta

Cool. Well, you do and you learn with these things. Alright. My last question for you is, what one piece of advice would you give to people who are thinking of investing in Main Street that is outside of Wall Street?

 

Ryan Hill

I think listening to podcasts like yours, educating yourself, and then meeting principles, different — not on a different principle, but in myself or Brett. Start talking to people that are in the space that are acquiring these properties offering. We raised a little over $7 million on this last raise, which was our biggest one.

 

Brett and I met with several investors. So, we schedule a one-on-one time or allow people to schedule with us so they can get to meet us and know us. Because you have to have a level of trust if you’re going to give somebody $50,000, $100,000, $500,000 of your money, and entrust them with it to get great returns. So, we take that to heart. We want to get to know our investors as well, so we know we have aligned interests. I think those are the pieces I would suggest. It’s networking, just researching, finding people to talk to that are in the space and that can offer you great returns like we can.

 

Pancham Gupta

Great advice. Ryan, thank you so much for joining today. How can people connect with you if they want to get in touch with you and find out more about you or your company?

 

Ryan Hill

Suncrestcap.com is our website. That’s the best way to see what we do. You can register there. SyndicationPro is what we use for our investor side. People can see the current investments that we have offered. They can see all the benefits for mobile home parks, recession resistant, the passive income piece, the accelerated depreciation, bonus depreciation, just a lot of tax benefits that come with mobile home parks as opposed to some other asset classes that we really enjoy. Suncrestcap.com is the best way to find out more about us.

 

Pancham Gupta

Great. Well, thank you, Ryan, for your time here.

 

Ryan Hill

Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you.

 

Pancham Gupta

Thank you for tuning in today and listening to Ryan’s story. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to reach out to me at p@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. That’s p@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. This is Pancham signing off. Until next time. Take care.

 

(outro)

 

Thank you for listening to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of Pancham Gupta, visit us at www.thegoldcollarinvestor.com and follow us on Facebook at The Gold Collar Investor. The information on this podcast are opinions. As always, please consult your own financial team before investing.

Copy of EP #18 - 2 Guests

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