(intro)

Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast, with your host Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high-paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams. Here’s your host Pancham Gupta.

Robert Helm

Hi there. I’m Robert Helm, host of the Real Estate Guys Radio Program. And if you want to have better results in your life, you got to put better ideas in your mind. You’re in the right place. You’re at The Gold Collar Investor Podcast.

Pancham Gupta

Welcome to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. This is your host Pancham. I really appreciate you for tuning in today. My guest is Dave Wolcott. He started his career by serving the country as a captain in the Marine Corps. In 2000, he and his wife brought triplets into the world, which inspired him to challenge traditional financial planning advice. Today, Dave is an author, a podcast host, and the founder and CEO of the Pantheon Investments, and is more passionate than ever about helping entrepreneurs build wealth by passively investing in superior real estate and alternative assets that provide predictable cash flow, tax efficiency, and upside potential as a reliable alternative to the velocity of the stock market.

(interview)

Pancham Gupta

Hey, Dave, welcome to the show.

Dave Wolcott

Pancham, I’m grateful to be here and connect with you and your audience.

Pancham Gupta

Thanks for your time. Before we get started, are you ready to fire up my listeners break out of Wall Street investments?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, 100%. This is all about 10x-ing your wealth and bypassing Wall Street and going directly to Main Street.

Pancham Gupta

Awesome. So, let’s start with your background, Dave. I know that you were a captain in Marine Corps. That’s how you started your career. Tell us about that, and how you got into what you’re doing now. Take it away.

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, sure. So, I was raised in a middle-class family in Connecticut. Probably, like a lot of the audience out there, I was taught that the recipe for success was to go to school, get good grades. Then you’re going to get a job, and life would just work out for you. So, I grew up with that, being beat down my head and followed that path. I went to school at George Washington University in DC. I did the ROTC program and had the opportunity to serve my country in the Marine Corps, which was really a phenomenal experience. I get to travel the world, learn a lot about myself, work with some great people, and also learn some things in the Marine Corps where they just don’t really teach, I think, anywhere else in the planet really well — things such as leadership, teamwork, and integrity.

After the Marine Corps, I transitioned into the tech industry. I got into corporate America. At the same time, my wife and I were starting to raise a family. We had an 18-month-old toddler. Then on October 24, 2000, we actually won the baby lottery and had triplets. So, it was a crazy time in our lives. We have literally quadrupled the size of our family, Pancham. So, the first thing that I did, I was trying to figure out was, okay, how am I going to provide for my family, with financial security at that point? Because my world, my costs just exponentially grew. The first thing I did was go to see my financial planner. He told me what every other planner kept always telling me, which was, “Don’t worry about it. Max out your 401K. You’ve got, for the kids, you could do 529 plans. You’ll make a 7% return over the long haul. But you’ll do okay. Just keep tracking to that.”

The entrepreneur in me just really wasn’t satisfied with that, Pancham. So, it put me on this quest to really figure out how are the top 1% are really building their wealth. Because I knew it wasn’t as a retail investor in the stock market. That time, I started investing in all kinds of alternative assets — everything from oil and gas, retail, raw land, office parks, multifamily, you name it in the private equity space. I also shortly thereafter started my own business in the tech consulting space, which I ended up taking full cycle. But in the course of running businesses, I learned a lot about taxes as well. Fast forward to today, that 20 years of learning has really been instantiated in my latest book that was just published, The Holistic Wealth Strategy, which is really about creating a system for how you build wealth like the 1%.

Pancham Gupta

That’s awesome. I think it’s is a great segue into my next question. But before I actually get there, your story of getting the size of the family to quadruple and then really learning in the quest, how did you get — anyone listening, and they are in on a similar path, what resources did you go and find out at the time to learn about the things that you know today? Was it through networking? Was it through going to conferences? How did you do what you learned over time?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, sure. So much has changed. But this all happened for me again in 2000. Literally, Kiyosaki’s books just came out, I think ’98, ’99. So, there weren’t great resources like podcasts like this. There was very, very little information that was available. But I took the purple pill. I read Cashflow Quadrant. I realized I needed to become a business owner. I really wanted to become a professional investor and invest in alternative assets. So, I started doing a lot of networking and actually working on my relationship capital. I eventually had connected with a real estate operator and syndicator. At the time, I was still non-accredited but I was still able to get some access into some early deals, and then eventually got into some deals very early on. So, that was really what started it. It was just this obsessive persistence around trying to take action, trying to get into the game. I’ve thought about single family real estate, but I could just never make the numbers work in my own backyard. And so, I really believed in the thesis around passive income and how that worked. It was all just about trying to figure out deal access and how can I get into something.

Pancham Gupta

That book Cashflow Quadrant literally changed many lives, including mine. I actually did a full episode just on that book, all of my findings, when I actually launched the podcast. If I remember, it was show 9. Anyone listening, you can reach out. If you want to listen, thegoldcollarinvestor.com/show9. It’s the entire summary of the book Cashflow Quadrant. Okay. Let’s talk about your book, this book that you published, The Holistic Wealth Strategy you just launched. What are some of the biggest takeaways from this book?

Dave Wolcott

If I really think about it, Pancham, it’s like I went from reading Cashflow Quadrant probably like a lot of people do, and say I had this massive paradigm shift, where I knew to really build real wealth, I needed to be a business owner. I knew that I’d be more tax advantaged on that side. I also wanted to be an investor, because I was excited about it. It was kind of interesting to me. And so, what asset classes could I focus on and things? But yet, there was no blueprint. There was nothing out there to say, hey, you need to do all of this kind of steps.

What I did really, my book is really a blueprint or a roadmap, if you will, of how you can have a framework to follow a particular set of steps to really catapult your wealth trajectory. It all really starts, number one, with your vision statement. Because if you don’t have a target, you’ll miss every time. Getting crystal clear clarity for you and your family on what is wealth really mean to you. Because for some people, it could be more freedom of time to have the time to spend with your family, or travel, or do some of those things you want to do. Other people might want to have more freedom of relationship, where they want to spend time with like-minded people that inspire them, that fascinate and motivate them, having freedom of relationship, or having freedom of purpose, to get out of bed every day and be so excited about what you’re doing. That’s your why. That’s what really drives you. So, it’s really getting clear on what your vision statement is. Then from there, we move into five distinct phases within the strategy.

Pancham Gupta

Got it. So, can we talk about that five-phase approach, like top-level summary and takeaways on what are those five-phase approach that you have?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, the first one really all starts with mindset. I can guarantee you’ve gone home for a holiday, and you’ve talked about a great multifamily investment opportunity. Some people in your family or friends you’ve known for years — who know you, like you, trust you — might say to you that sounds risky to me. Or, my financial planner doesn’t think that’s a good idea.

Pancham Gupta

Always.

Dave Wolcott

Right. Phase one is all about your mindset. You really need to have a growth mindset. You need to be a lifelong learner, and always open to exploring new things, new concepts, new ideas, new people. You get that exposure. Then you can make an informed decision. Does this fit for me? So, having a growth mindset is really key. From there, we can start to create ambitious goals for ourselves. We can create habits that support that. That’s really foundational. Because if you don’t have that, you’re just going to invest like the rest of the 95%. So, you might as well go ahead and just keep giving your money to your financial planner. But if you want to go further, you got to have the right mindset.

Then after that, we move into what I call, really, the formula for building wealth which is your financial IQ plus your mindset IQ, plus relationship capital, plus your physical capital. Physical capital is so important here. Let’s just say we had all the wealth in the world. But what if you didn’t have your health? How much would Steve Jobs have paid to solve his health problems and be around contributing and innovating for another 10, 20 years? Health is so important, and that helps drive us towards our goals, financial IQ, listening to good podcasts like this, and learning about new asset classes, growing yourself and your mindset to see what’s a good fit for you. Because you can do better. If you believe that you can do better, you can do better. We’ve seen returns 3x, 5x, 10x better than what you can get when you invest the average.

Then we move into the third stage. Once you’ve gotten a little bit smarter, you have the right mindset about everything, then we talk about actually creating a team and an infrastructure to building your wealth. Many times, we’re all focused on yield. What’s the best return on this investment or that investment? How does that really compare? But we’re not looking at the three biggest wealth destroyers which are taxes, stock market losses overtime, and government-sponsored qualified plans. If I can start to put in a strategy in place that mitigates my taxes, let’s just say I could reduce your taxes by 10%. I could get you into a private equity investment that’s yielding 20%. Now you’re at a 30% return, right? That’s on a perpetual basis, moving forward. So, it’s really key to look at some of those wealth destroyers, put plans in place where you can mitigate some of those strategies.

As part of the infrastructure, we’ve also talked about infinite banking. We had talked about that earlier on the show, which is I know, you guys, your audience is familiar with that. But what I think infinite banking does is it creates a liquidity solution to invest in private equity. Because that’s the one downside to private equity — it’s you don’t have liquidity because some of these assets or your capital is tied up for a longer amount of time. Well, this creates liquidity. It’s got tax efficiency. You avoid probate by being able to gift your funds to your heirs completely tax-free. There are just so many different benefits, right?

Pancham Gupta

Yeah, Dave, I know we’ve talked about this on the show. But can you briefly, for someone listening for the first time, talk about what is infinite banking? I know it’s a big topic, and you can’t even cover it in an hour. But briefly talk about how do you achieve that with the whole life insurance policy? What kind of policy is this that gives you that liquidity foundation that you’ve been talking about just now?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, for sure. This is really interesting. A lot of, basically, family offices, ultra-high net worth people, they use this as the base of their portfolio. This is very foundational to their overall portfolio. What it is, is it’s a cash value whole life insurance policy. I’ll also give that with the caveat that it needs to be properly structured. You have to be working with the right people to be able to set this up. Because you can call your insurance company today, they probably won’t know what you’re talking about. But when you have it properly structured and set up, you’re able to actually put cash into the life insurance policy. You have a life insurance benefit to that, but your funds start growing completely tax-free. You can give them to your heirs completely tax-free. It has asset protection built into it because it’s life insurance. So, creditors can’t come after it.

But the amazing thing is, is as you build up the cash value in the policy, you can actually borrow against the policy. You can do anything you want with that capital. You can pay for your kid’s college. You can pay for a car, if you want, with that capital. Or you can borrow that money and actually use the same dollar twice and invest it into that next opportunity. Usually, there’s a little bit of a spread between the loan and the yield on your cash value. Therefore, you have the same dollar earning things twice. One of our philosophies is that we’re always trying to — every time we deploy $1 of capital, we want to make sure that we’re doing multiple things at the same time. I think many times people just think of it one-dimensionally. But the more things you can do with your capital — we’ve got life insurance. We’ve got tax efficiency. We’ve got yield. We’ve got liquidity. We’ve got asset protection. Think of all those different things — that’s really powerful to support this wealth strategy.

Pancham Gupta

Absolutely. So, your strategy is that once you have this private bank of your own, and you have this capability of deploying the same dollars twice, then you take that money. You invest in these other passive investments which are yielding 5%, 6%, 10%, 20%, and have your cash work twice for you, the same dollar. On top of that, if you can have some tax benefits, even on top of those, then that’s like gravy on the benefits, all the benefits that you’re already getting. So, let’s talk about oil and gas investing. Actually, before we go there, do you have any other tips on the five-phase approach that you had? You had the mindset.

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, let me finish that. I’ll finish the five phases, and then we can jump into oil and gas. Really, we talked about having the right mindset, that you’re looking at new opportunities. You’re getting smarter about what these opportunities are. Now you’re creating a whole new infrastructure to support that. You’re also building a team. A whole different team of advisors might even be letting your existing financial planner go, as you look at some of these other strategies. Then we often find people say that, “That makes a lot of sense. I’d like to get into the game, but I don’t have liquid capital ready to invest.”

Phase four is about asset reposition. 90% of Americans have their capital tied up in two places, which is trapped equity in their primary residence, or they haven’t any government-sponsored qualified plans. So, I can tell you that the rate of return on equity in your primary residence is zero. It’s a middle-class approach to be listening to Suze Orman and paying off the debt on your house. If that’s your risk tolerance, by all means, go for it. But if you’re looking to get more leverage, take out a HELOC. Go up to the LTV that you’re comfortable with. Then take that capital and start to deploy that in a risk-adjusted asset class, like let’s say a multifamily syndication that gives you additional cash flow, tax benefits, appreciation and leverage. Then you can start to use that debt service to be paid for with the income. You’ve also even increased your interest, mortgage interest deduction. So, we’re looking at things like end to end. That’s a key one in asset repositioning.

Also, we’ve done the math. If any of your listeners are interested, we actually have a 401K exit calculator. This was enlightening to me because I sold my 401k about 10 years ago. Let’s say, you have 100k in your 401K. You’re paying the 10% penalty today. You pay 35% in taxes, and you have 55k net investable. Well, if I compare that against leaving it in the plan, where would I be in 20 years? Well, if you take a 20% return that’s compounding tax-free, because you’re able to offset your income in these deals, in 20 years, Pancham, that 55k would grow to over 2 million with those. Now had I left it in the 401K, the amount after taxes would be 250k. So, it’s a massive difference. You can factor in your own assumptions that make you comfortable with the rate of return and things like that. But it’s really understanding that time value of money and repositioning your assets and make sure you have the most velocity for you, that your portfolio’s working for that.

Then we move into phase five which is all about building massive passive income. This is really looking at all these different types of alternative investments that really support your goals, that support your risk tolerance, that support your investor DNA, and really give you that trifecta of investing which has cashflow, tax efficiency, and a lucrative upside to it.

Pancham Gupta

That’s awesome. Do you have in your book all the steps for each and every phase that a person can take?

Dave Wolcott

Yes, in my book The Holistic Wealth Strategy, we literally go through a breakdown of every different stage in more detail and more examples of how you can accomplish that at every phase.

Pancham Gupta

Cool. For anyone listening, if you’re intrigued by this knowledge, what Dave is mentioning, definitely go check out his book. How can they get the book, Dave, if they want to find it? Is it on Amazon?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, the best place. It is on Amazon. We have some free book resources as well, including that 401K exit calculator. We’ve got a due diligence checklist. Some other cool assets is part of our bonus bundle. If you go to pantheoninvest.com/wealth-strategy, that’s where you can actually download those assets. There’s a link to the book as well. Yeah, the book, we literally just rolled it out. It was ranked. It was Amazon number one best seller in multiple categories — in financial engineering, small business taxes, and wealth. So, check it out.

Pancham Gupta

That’s awesome. So, let’s get into the topic that I think we have not discussed that much. A lot of people who are listening, they probably have W2 job as their active income, right? Can they offset that? I know you’re not a CPA. But can they offset that with the oil and gas investments?

Dave Wolcott

Yes, one of the big things I realized after many years of running businesses, paying more and more in taxes, I fired five CPA firms, what I finally learned about taxes, you really need to make a paradigm shift on how you think about taxes. Ultimately, the Tax Code is 6,000 pages, and 5999 pages are all about incentives for business owners and investors. When you understand that, then you can actually realize that you can partner with the government, and invest and do activities that support what they want you to do.

Energy is one of those spaces that is vitally important to our government, right? It supports our GDP, no matter what industry you’re in. It supports our national strategic defense initiatives, energy and everything. Literally, since the Reagan era, there have been very strong incentives in place to invest in energy. What’s very unique — I’m sure a lot of your listeners have invested in real estate, so you’re familiar with depreciation against passive losses, against passive income. But in this case, with energy, what’s unique is you can actually offset your active income. If you’re a high-income earner, a W2 income earner between you and your spouse, 100% of your investment in oil and gas is actually tax deductible. For the funds that we have, I just got my K-1 statement actually this week. In year one, we had estimated about 80% in year one. It turned out to be 90%. So, that’s pretty considerable. When you just take that right off of the top of your income, it can lower your tax brackets by a couple of tax brackets.

Pancham Gupta

So, just to be very clear. This is not investing in Exxon Mobil stock or Chevron stock, right? This is really investing in the actual drilling operations, right?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, correct. I think a lot of people don’t realize it. So, the oil and gas industry is actually, 80% of it is small businesses. It’s drilling operators in this country. We have a partner that has a super unique model, and they learned it from the real estate industry. Similar to a multifamily like a value-add type of opportunity, the business model is that we drill wells across five different states or different basins, they call it. So, we’re drilling for oil and natural gas. So, that gives us some diversification because we’re kind of spread out. Then once those hydrocarbons, we bring them up from the ground, we’re able to sell those. And so, you start getting passive income on a monthly basis, which has healthy double digit returns to it, getting the passive income on that. It’s also treated as a return of capital. So, there’s no taxation on your passive income, which is really nice.

Then the business model from there is to actually package a set of those active and producing wells and sell those to either a larger producer like an Exxon Mobil or ConocoPhillips, or to sell them to say pension funds. I love these things, because they’re just cash flowing and everything. So, they make a nice return. Then we’ve actually made some profit from there. Then the model further is you can actually do 1031 exchanges in oil and gas also. So, we will have subsequent funds that you can roll into and continue to avoid taxes from that standpoint or deferred taxes, I should say.

Pancham Gupta

That’s great. I personally have never invested in oil and gas funds. The issue that I’ve had is to be able to find the operators, like the right operators. It’s been a challenge for me. So, maybe we can chat more offline. All right. Cool. Anything else that you would like to add before we move on to the second part of the show?

Dave Wolcott

No, I think that’s good. But just to make a comment, that’s part of our business model, Pancham. Similar to real estate or any other asset class, it’s all about doing some extensive due diligence. We try to take that off of the hands of our investors. They’re certainly going to do some of that on their own part. But we do third-party background checks. We contact references. We’re looking at track record over the prior years of how people have done. We’re going through some exhaustive criteria to make sure that everything from the team that we’re investing in, to the operations of the business model of everything are really solid and buttoned up before we make any investments. Then we also co-invest with our investors because we’re in on these deals as well.

Pancham Gupta

Cool. Well, it sounds great. We’ll be back after this short break.

(break)

If you’re an accredited investor and have been thinking about putting your money to work for you, then I have good news for you. I have created an investor club which I call the Gold Collar Investor Club. I will be putting together investing opportunities exclusively for the group. These are the opportunities where I have done the due diligence for you and will be investing my own money alongside you.

If you are interested, please sign up on thegoldcollarinvestor.com/club. I repeat, thegoldcollarinvestor.com/club. I will reach out to schedule a 30-minute phone conversation to discuss your investing goals once you sign up. This can be a good opportunity to diversify and take some chips off the hands of Wall Street to produce passive income.

In case you are wondering what is an accredited investor, an accredited investor is someone who has earned more than $200,000 as filing single or more than $300,000 filing jointly for the last two years. Another way to qualify as an accredited investor is if your total net worth is more than $1 million, excluding your personal home. It includes your stocks, 401ks, IRAs, cars, et cetera—just not the equity in your personal home. If this is you, I would highly encourage you to sign up.

(interview)

Pancham Gupta

Dave, let’s move on to the second part of the show, which I call Taking the Leap Round. This is where I ask four questions to every guest on the show, the same questions. My first question for you is: when was the first time you invested outside of Wall Street?

Dave Wolcott

My first investment goes back to when I was talking about my journey in early 2000, and I had invested in first private equity opportunity. I think it was maybe 10, 20k. There wasn’t a lot, but I got into the game. It was in an office. It was an office building in Dallas, Texas. And so, I had gotten to know an operator who is doing different deals in that area. That proceeded to do well. It was cash flowing. We exited after a couple of years. It made a nice return. The whole strategy is just rinse and repeat.

Pancham Gupta

So, this was back in 2000, you said?

Dave Wolcott

Yes.

Pancham Gupta

Wow. At that time, when internet was there, it’s not what it is today. Right? So, it must have been not an easy task to find this operator. How did you go about that? Sorry, I’m just curious.

Dave Wolcott

A lot of that was relationships. And so, we always talk about leverage in real estate, trying to get leverage. But the thing people don’t realize also is you can get leveraged from people. So, had I gone and tried to get into an office building myself, it would have been so much harder. I’m competing with this competition, a team that’s experienced and knows the market inside and out. But by finding that right person for you who can do a lot of that work, and we always want to bet on the jockey, not the horse. I think that’s part of my unique ability. It’s finding really strong teams and operators that I know can execute on the business plan. So, that was really where I started. Then once you start to see the results for yourself, and you start modeling out some projections, just like I was talking about in the 401K, you start to become a lot more confident that you can do much better on a risk adjusted basis than just hoping and praying by leaving your money in equities.

Pancham Gupta

Yeah, absolutely. Cool. My second question, did you have any fears when you invested in that operator passively?

Dave Wolcott

I think there’s always some fears. Capital preservation — you don’t want to lose your money. That’s Warren Buffett’s number one rule. Number two, and number three, you certainly don’t want to lose your capital. But I think, like we talked about in our well strategy, moving into that fifth stage, you really have to take action. If you’ve learned about all of this and you’ve really made progress on here, at some point, you got to stick your toe in the water. I encourage people. Just get into your first deal. Don’t be as concerned with all of the specifics about it. Because for the majority of a lot of these deals, they’re structured fairly similar. But once you can get into the game, you’re going to increase your level of learning that much more, and then start to refine your buy box and what you’re really looking for.

Pancham Gupta

Right. Okay. Great. My third question for you: can you share with us one investment that did not go as expected?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, you’ll appreciate this, Pancham. I actually made an investment in the Indian stock market.

Pancham Gupta

Oh, really? Like from here?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah.

Pancham Gupta

How did you do that?

Dave Wolcott

I’m trying to think. This was probably around, I want to say, maybe 2014, ’15, like the early teens when it was on the rise for a while. My partner, he was from there, so we had an opportunity to invest there. But I invested in something I didn’t know anything about. That was the lesson learned. I didn’t know anything about it. Then there was also so much complexity in doing something overseas and things that I didn’t figure out. So, I pretty much lost majority of my investment there.

Again, investing to me in stocks, bonds, and mutual funds, it seems so speculative to me. Because even if you invest in the best company that has the best fundamentals, the best leadership team, the best market dynamics, something can happen overnight in Asia that brings your holdings down 5% and 10%. There’s even risk. I mean, this is interesting too, Pancham. People are so concerned about risk by investing into a real estate asset. But my wife had a bunch of Kodak stock that literally went bankrupt. We lost everything, and there was no recourse or anything. That was considered one of the most blue-chip stocks that was in pension funds and things like that. We’ve had other positions as well, like GE that have dropped considerably. So, you tell me what’s risky.

Pancham Gupta

Yeah, the thing is that there are so many — like you said, when you grew up, you were taught about just getting a job, investing in 401ks and these mutual funds and all that. So, it’s just how our programming has been since the beginning. It takes time to get over it. Yeah, you’re not going to have all home runs. But once you get decently good at it, you get to know which ones are good and which ones are bad. So, my last question for you: what is one piece of advice would you give to people who are thinking of investing in Main Street that is outside of Wall Street?

Dave Wolcott

I would definitely say create a strategy. Because, again, I think we’re so attuned to Wall Street that says, “Hey, I have this product that has a certain yield to it.” That’s all. We look at things very one dimensionally. But when you can look at — building wealth is a process. So, you want to look at it end to end, and understand that the decisions you’re making today are going to impact you over 5 years, over 10 years. So, you need to be very well thought out. You need to understand tax ramifications downstream. You need to understand different nuances about an asset in terms of cash flow, or exiting, or how can you use that infinite banking strategy to amplify your returns, how can you continually protect your downside. Because this is also not only about protecting your wealth or multiplying your wealth. It’s also about protecting your wealth, right? Because if we were to lose things, or let’s say even if you had a million-dollar portfolio and you made a 10% mistake, I mean, that’s 100k add to your portfolio. The bigger your portfolio gets, if it’s a $10 million portfolio, that’s a million-dollar mistake. How can you avoid those mistakes, and really protect your hard-earned capital at the same time? I think really having an all-encompassing strategy and a team that supports that is really vital to be successful.

Pancham Gupta

That’s great. Thanks for sharing that, Dave, and your time really and sharing your wisdom here on the podcast. How can listeners connect with you and find out on what you’re doing, and maybe discuss infinite banking with you or any other strategies?

Dave Wolcott

Yeah, I appreciate that, Pancham. Again, I’ll just point folks to the book on our site, which is pantheoninvest.com/wealth-strategy. We’ve got those free resources that you can download from there. You can get a copy of the book as well. Then happy to connect and have a conversation, and see if I can help accelerate people’s journey.

Pancham Gupta

Sounds good. Thank you, Dave, for your time.

Dave Wolcott

Awesome. I really enjoyed it, Pancham. Thanks.

Pancham Gupta

Thanks for listening to today’s podcast. If you have questions, don’t hesitate to email them to me at p@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. That’s p@thegoldcollarinvestor.com. This is Pancham, signing off. Take care. Until next time.

(outro)

Thank you for listening to The Gold Collar Investor Podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of Pancham Gupta, visit us at www.thegoldcollarinvestor.com and follow us on Facebook @thegoldcollarinvestor. The information on this podcast are opinions. As always, please consult your own financial team before investing.