Episode 25 – What in the World are RV Parks? Can RV's be Tenants?
In this episode, Pancham interviews Scott Lewis, CEO, and co-founder of Spartan Investment Group. Scott shares some little-known facts about RV Park investing, and reveals how you can generate excellent returns, both as a passive and active investor in this space.
This show starts off with Scott sharing his background information. Scott reveals how he discovered real estate, and then RV Parks. How did Scott end up investing in an RV Park in west Texas? Why did he take on a huge risk of investing in a thoroughly mismanaged RV Park? Scott reveals his experience with managing and turning around his investment. This show will be particularly interesting to investors who are looking for alternative investments which generate higher returns.
Tune in for some excellent nuggets!
- 00:48 – Can you generate good returns by investing in RV Parks?
- 01:48 – Pancham introduces Scott Lewis of Spartan Investment Group to listeners
- 02:58 – How did Scott discover real estate?
- 03:27 – How did Scott’s first real estate investment pan out?
- 04:08 – Scott recalls how he founded Spartan Investment Group
- 05:22 – Can investing in RV Parks prove to be lucrative for you?
- 06:25 – Are RV Parks different from camp grounds?
- 06:40 – Scott explains the different categories of RV Parks ranging from the high end to low
- 07:31 – Do people stay in RV Parks throughout the year?
- 08:35 – Is there a standard rating for a RV Park?
- 10:48 – Learn some interesting details about a RV Park that Scott recently purchased in Western Texas
- 12:26 – Scott explains the economics of an RV Park
- 13:18 – Typically, what expenses does a RV Park owner bear?
- 15:21 – What is the expense ratio for an RV Park?
- 16:01 – How did Scott end up acquiring the RV Park in Western Texas?
- 17:25 – What is cap rate? Pancham and Scott explain in simple terms
- 20:27 – Is there a supply-demand mismatch in the RV Park space?
- 22:11 – Can you invest in a RV Park through a syndication?
- 23:08 – Taking the Leap
- 23:10 – When was the first time you invested outside of the Wall Street?
- 24:03 – What fears had to overcome when you purchased your first investment property?
- 26:10 – Can you share one investment that did not go as expected?
- 29:05 – What is one piece of advice that you should give to people thinking of investing in the Main Street?
- 30:19 – Scott shares his contact information
- 30:48 – Discover the Top SIX reasons for diversifying outside of the Wall Street
- 31:55 – Got questions? Get in touch with Pancham
3 Key Points:
- Understanding the nuances of RV Park Investing
- RV Parks vs. Camp Grounds – What is the difference?
- How to invest passively in a RV Park
- For more details visit: http://www.TheGoldCollarInvestor.com/show20
- Download free report on top 6 reasons to invest outside of wall-street: http://www.TheGoldCollarInvestor.com/download
Get in Touch:
Welcome to the Gold Collar Investor podcast with your host, Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams.
Here’s your host, Pancham Gupta.
Pancham: Welcome to the Gold Collar Investor podcast. This is Pancham. If this is your first time listening, then thanks for coming. The Gold Collar Investor podcast is produced every week for your learning and enjoyment. Show Notes can be found at the Goldcollarinvestor.com/show19. All links are in the show notes. Now let’s get into the show. I go to many different types of conferences. Since I love real estate so much, most of them end up being real estate related conferences. Recently, I was at this one conference in Denver, and I heard about RV Parks, also known as recreational vehicle parks. Yes, there is such thing called RV Parks. I found this talk very interesting. I had never heard of this niche until that conference to satisfy my curiosity. After I got back home, I tried looking for materials on RV Parks. It’s not surprising that there is not much information available online that discusses the special niche as an investment. Believe it or not, you can make an excellent return by owning them. Today I have invited Scott Lewis to talk about our RV Parks. Scott Lewis is the co founder and CEO of Spartan Investment Group. He has led several successful real estate projects ranging from single family flips to raw and development. Spartan Investment Group has completed 6 million in development projects and has $30 million more underway. They have raised over $10 million in private equity as well. As the CEO, Scott, is responsible for developing business strategies and plans ensuring their alignment with short term and long term objectives. He leads the Spartan team by overseeing all operations and business activities to ensure they produce the desired results that are consistent with the overall strategy and mission. In addition to Spartan, Scott is also a major in the US Army Reserves and is an Operation Iraqi Freedom veteran. Scott, welcome to the show.
Scott: Thanks, Pancham. Glad to be here.
Pancham: Are you ready to fire up my listeners break out of Wall Street investments?
Scott: Without question. Absolutely.
Pancham: Great. So before we begin, Scott, do you want to give a quick overview of how you got started and what’s your background?
Scott: Sure, sure. I got started in real estate in high school. I was a frame layer for a local construction guy. So I kind of cut my teeth with building single family residential houses around my neighborhood. And then when I went to college. I was also on a framing crew there for the summers and that’s kind of how I put myself through college. That’s really how I cut my teeth for real estate as an interest to me. As far as investing goes, I bought a condo in Chicago in 2005. Well, I still own that condo. It’s still underwater by about 10 grand. As anybody that bought in 2005 knows.
Pancham: Oh, wow. Still?
Scott: it’s just now cresting, kind of like what I paid for it. So that it was an area that was hit pretty hard. It was really over developed. And unfortunately I still own it. That being said, I’ve owned it for this entire time. I’ve had the same renter in there and I’m making about 50 bucks a month, so I really can’t complain. That’s really kind of where the investing, the investing side of the house started, where I got really started with smart investment group was living in DC living in a row house. And there was a very dilapidated house right next door to mine. So my wife was not a huge fan of coming home seeing this very dilapidated, basically vacant house, there was one like kind of random guy that lived there. But it was, for all intents and purposes was vacant. And she basically told me to fix it. And I was like, Okay, I don’t know what to do. So I just went about finding the owner. And what I had started was a direct mail campaign to try to find this owner. And I did and that was our first deal that I took from raising capital. Now I say, raising capital and in a very loose sense it was myself, my father-in-law and my buddy, which is how most people start raising capital and we did that deal, made a bunch of money, and then that’s what seeded our company and really got us off to the races for Spartan Investment group.
Pancham: Oh, great. And how long ago was that?
Scott: That was in 2013.
Pancham: Oh, nice. Nice. Okay. All right. So let’s get into RV Parks. So what are these RV Parks? You know, can you explain to my audience? Like, what are these things?
Scott: Yeah, so the RV Park, as you mentioned, it is a recreational vehicle. And over the last, I’d say maybe a year and a half to two years, the RV market in general has really taken off. There’s all kinds of baby boomers and millennials alike. It’s kind of on both ends of the spectrum. So they are quote unquote, taking to the road and they’re really there. They’re getting in the RV’s and they’re, they’re really traveling around. There’s a lot of young folks in the millennial generation that are living in them. That’s what they’ve done. They just they decided that they didn’t want a home in a particular location and they’re living in them driving around. Same with some baby boomers as well.
Scott: The RV Park is basically it’s very similar to what it sounds it’s basically an area to where you can bring your recreational vehicle and you can hook up to water electric and sanitary so that you can use all of those services for a longer duration of time.
Pancham: I see. How are they, let’s say the campgrounds so they can almost be one in the same. So there’s a good number of campgrounds out there that also have RV hookups. Right, we talk about RV Parks, there’s several different types. There’s the super high end really luxury parks. I mean these are these are really, really nice parks in the RV that are being brought into there. We affectionately call them land yachts. They can be off to a half a million dollars for these. These ones are self propelled. They have an engine, they have wheels. There’s other RV’s and the technical term would be a camping trailer, but they’re often referred to as RV. But these very high end parks, they have minimum standards for the age of the vehicle, the length of the vehicle, the type of vehicle, they’re very, very, very specific. And they’re incredibly nice. They’re in beautiful locations. They’ve got a ton of amenities like tennis courts, swimming pools. Some have restaurants on them. They’re incredibly nice.
Pancham: So, are there people living permanently? As in like, you know, it’s not seasonal.
Scott: There’s both. They are definitely seasonal. So when you get into certain parts of the country, it’s very, very difficult to live in an RV year round in say, Montana. However, in Florida, it’s very easy to do that. So that the answer to your question is it really depends on the climate. In warmer Southern, Southeastern and Southwestern climates, then yes, people are living in these year round. However, some people are still living in these year round. However, they’re just moving around. That’s kind of why they’re doing it. They might spend the summer in Montana in the winter in Florida.
Pancham: Right and take the same RV from one place to another.
Scott: Okay, well, so that was one side of the spectrum which is a very high-end, super nice parks. Right? Is there any rating to them? Like do you do we have any name specific industry term for it or so not really in the RV, the RV Park industry is pretty fragmented. It doesn’t have say, a Class A Class B class C class the although you could easily align your high-end luxury parks or your equivalent to your class a multi family versus you know the campground that you were referencing that can be incredibly rustic. That campground may only have a very basic connection for water, sewer and electric and it may be nothing more than a dirt pad where someone parks their RV there. And it can be only for a night.
Scott: They are driving from, you know, Montana to Phoenix, they’re going to need to stop along the way and they might just pick up that campground along the way. Just stay for a night.
Pancham: Right, right, right. Okay. All right. So it’s really, someone really says that it’s an RV Park, ulu cannot really tell the difference between whether it’s a campground or an RV Park. Basically if a campground has and hookup that means it’s an RV Park.
Scott: That’s right.
Pancham: So the term RV Park spans you know, quite the spectrum of levels of RV Park, very similar to other real estate classes. Lot of the RV Park things a little bit more fragmented, because you know, a Class D multifamily versus a Class A. Yeah, there’s are definitely many of the differences but I don’t think the multifamily guys would challenge me on this. But I don’t think that the spectrum of amenities between a Class D apartment complex and, you know a Class A. Unless you’re in a core asset that’s sitting above retail and it has all these like fancy things in it that really span the spectrum, the Class quote unquote D RV Park can literally be a dirt pad with a pipe sticking up out of the ground that you connect your water and sewer to, and that is it like anything else so I would challenge the multifamily guys that even the multifamily still as a toilet
Pancham: Alright, Alright, sounds good. So how do you make money in this niche, you know, RV Parks?
Scott: So it’s an interesting spectrum. So I can talk about the RV Park that we own. Now in full disclosure, we’re really Self Storage guys, but this deal came along and it was such a fantastic deal that we couldn’t pass it up so we became RV Park owners. So the RV Park that we own is down in the Permian Basin in West Texas. And it’s really less of an RV Park and more of workforce housing that uses RV. So most of our residents in the park are oilfield workers. So they’re anywhere from you know, a week with for shorter contracts and a couple of years down there working in the oil fields. So these guys are working 16 hours a day, seven days a week. Some of them have families with them, some of them don’t. Some of the RV’s are very, very nice. Some of them are not. Our Park is basically a 10 acre lot and there’s no pavement. We have chip seal and we have crushed rock that folks park on but we do have some amenities. We have bathrooms, we have showers, and we have a laundry room. We’ve got a play area for the children, we’ve got a picnic area, and the park is well kept. So it’s kind of in the middle of where you get out for your basic campground and your super nice park closer to the campground than the nicer Park.
Pancham: Right? It’s like C, C plus or B minus some of it.
Scott: That’s exactly where it is. Okay, and, you know, going back to how we make money to we don’t have daily rates in our park. Now a lot of the campgrounds do, and you could come in and you could rent you know, for a night for 50 bucks or at the super, super high end ones, it might be two or $300 a night to just hook up. Right? Basically we have monthly rates and people pay us X dollars a month. Now, if folks leave early, we’re pretty flexible. A lot of the owners are not, especially down in that area. It’s you pay for a month and if you leave in three weeks, well that’s too bad. So sad. That doesn’t adhere to our values. So we don’t do that. But it’s been very, very common in the industry to do that, and people were aware. So that that’s usually what happens.
Pancham: I see. So you get this rent and in terms of the expenses thing, what kind of expenses you have to bear in order to run this park?
Scott: Yeah, so great question. So some of the parks sub meter out all of the spots, which means they put electrical and water meters at every spot. Very, very, very difficult to manage. We don’t do that. We just charge the rent, and the rent includes utilities. So for us, you know, we have to pay for water. We have to pay…Ours is on a septic system out there. So we have to pay to, you know, clean out the septics once a year or so. And then we have to pay for electrical. In addition to the management and maintenance and your normal expenses for running any real estate asset.
Pancham: Right. So you mentioned that it’s very difficult to manage the sub metered client? Is there any reason because it seems you need to get someone to get the meter reading every single time someone checks in, checks out?
Scott: That’s right. So there’s an adjacent park to Austin. And our park is year round. We are not a seasonal Park. We are completely full year round. If they’re pumping oil, we’re 100% full. There is an adjacent park to us. That is a very nice park. And they do have the ability to do individual electric. And we’ve spoken to them. It’s a pretty collaborative environment down there. Because everybody’s 100% full with a waiting list. So there’s not a competitive spirit. It’s kind of a, between the RV Park owners it’s more of a collaborative spirit. They have the ability to sub meter out and they quit doing it because it was just a paperwork nightmare for you know, people that are coming in a week. The electric company doesn’t care that people are there a week. They bill by the month. So then how do you spell that out and they just found that it wasn’t worth it.
Pancham: Got it. Got it. Typically in a multifamily industry, we have expense ratios going from 50 to 60%. And for mobile home parks, it’s anywhere between 30 to 40%. How does it look for RV Parks? Is it more like mobile home parks?
Scott: It is. Our expense ratio is 38% for that park.
Pancham: Oh wow, and you have in house management?
Scott: Yeah. So we have two property managers on the site. And then we do the higher level asset management inside the parks and it’s one of our core competencies. We manage all of our own assets. So we do all the marketing and the website and that kind of stuff in house at the Spartan level and then we have day to day managers and maintenance folks at the park.
Pancham: Right, right, right. Okay. Are you guys happy with overall how it panned out? This particular park.
Scott: This particular park isn’t your normal asset. Tt was kind of a fortunate purchase there. There was some brothers that had it. And there were five partners in the deal. And they were not getting along very well. So they decided just to sell it. So this was kind of a hot mess when we took it over. It was, maybe like 60% occupied at the time. It was just kind of really run down. So we went in there. And this was really a turnaround play for us. So we went in and we dropped in our normal turnaround business plan. We did about $280,000 worth of improvements to include adding additional spaces and adding a propane business down there. And now I mean, it’s just absolutely crushing it. But it’s definitely not a normal deal. We bought this on a 17 cap, and it’s now operating at like a 38 cap.
Scott: I want to stress to your listeners that this was not a normal a normal deal. We really found a diamond in the rough. I mean, by the rough it was like, buried in like garbage and like, you know, like dead animals laying over it. It was very tough to find. Let me put it that way. When it was originally pitched to us we said no about five times before my director of acquisitions finally convinced us that we should take a look at this.
Pancham: Okay. All right, great. So just so that no listener left behind. Can you quickly explain what a cap rate is?
Scott: Sure. So a cap rate is the capitalization of a particular asset. I’ll be honest, I’m not very good at explaining it. There’s a couple ways to look at cap rate and really cap rate is…
Pancham: Yeah, it’s basically the net operating income, which is the income after you pay out all the expenses and deduct that from the overall gross revenue. And so that’s NOT, net operating income and you divide that with the purchase price address, and that’s your cap rate. And so if you have a 38% of 38 cap that mean that you are making 38%, you know, off the asset, what you paid overall asset price, and I’m sure you actually levered it also by taking loan on it. But if you know, paid cash for it, you would be making 38% return on your money.
Scott: That’s right. Cap rate also is an indicator of risk, the higher the cap rate acquisition so that the higher the cap rate, generally, the more risky the deal is that you’re getting into. So the fact that these things normally trade at an 11 to 13% cap rate, I said back that we were buying a 17 cap already indicated, you know, a decent amount of risk, which was true. I mean, it was in the Permian Basin, which is 100% based on oil. The financials from the previous years were not very good because it was…Unfortunately the two gentlemen who were In charge of the park, their father died in 2016. So they, you know, they had a big family emergency so they kind of took their eyes off the park. And the performance really suffered and they had a series of bad managers down there in 2017. They started to turn it around a little bit, but it was unfortunately a little bit too late. So that’s what was indicated by the 17% cap rate. The fact that it’s operating at a 38% cap rate…that was just based on purchase price, like you said it was based on NOI divided by purchase price currently. So if we, if we were to purchase it today given the same fundamentals, right, the same financials that we had when we bought it, it would be a 38 cap.
Pancham: So Right, right, right. Makes sense. Makes sense. So you know, I know in multifamily space there is supply demand equation that is waiting by location and at many different levels there. This is like Dallas, where there is you know, a lot of demand, and also there is a lot of supply and new buildings are coming up every single year. And then we have mobile home parks on the other side where they’re not building any new ones at all. Very even if there is a one or two, three getting built every year. How about RV Parks? Like you have any stats on that? Like, how many of these are getting built every year and how is just supply and demand?
Scott: So I can talk esoterically about supply and demand. As I mentioned, we’re not deep into the RV Park space, right one we do operate one. However, it was kind of an accidental purchase, I’ll say. And when we did the demand study here, we base it on the probability of oil and it being produced. One of the reasons that we purchased this park and in particular it is because of its location in a jurisdiction in which they are currently undergoing water restrictions. So we knew at least for a set amount of time, no other larger parks, there’s ways to, you know, we added spots on a well. So there’s ways to add smaller parks, but there was no other way to add a large park on, you know, within a 10 or 15 mile radius of us at least for a couple of years. And at that point, you know, it’s much harder to bounce out a competitor. As far as the demand there, there is definitely an increasing demand because the RV sales in general have it there. They’re at their highest they’ve ever been in the last 20 years. 20, late 2018 and early 2019 is seen as slowdown of a little bit, but 2016-2017 and early 2018 were the boom years for the RV dealers out there.
Pancham: Got it, got it. Cool. You know, I was definitely very intrigued by listening to this and I was at the conference. So thanks for sharing this, anything else you would like to add before we go to the next section of our show, which I call it taking the leap round?
Scott: No, I think you know, for the for the listeners that are out there that are looking at alternative investments to the stock market, I really encourage you to learn about the RV Parks space, because even if you don’t want to own one directly, you can own one through a syndication with folks like Spartan Investment Group that syndicate private equity to go out and purchase these assets. So that you can own and, and learn through our operations of it. Of kind of what it takes to run an RV Park and then you can make the decision whether you want to buy one for yourself or if you want to be passive and you just want to invest in other folk’s deals. That’s still a great way to make good returns.
Pancham: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, we talked about syndication on this show multiple times on different asset classes. I had 100% agree with you there. So in taking the leap round, I ask these four questions to every guest on my show. My first question is, when was the first time you invested outside of the Wall Street.?
Scott: So I think the first time I invested outside of Wall Street, I kind of did it on accident. And that was that condo in Chicago. I bought that condo and I only lived in it a year before I joined the military and then was off to the army world. And that was kind of I had to turn that into a, you know, a real estate investment at that time. So I had the capital that I use to purchase that and I really kind of turned it into a rental property. That was probably the first time I invested off of Wall Street. The first time I really did a direct investment in real estate was that run down home in between my house and then on my future business partner, Ryan’s house, that we renovated and sold.
Pancham: I see. Got it. Got it. So what fears did you have to overcome when you first invested outside of the Wall Street? You can talk about either that condo or that house?
Scott: Yeah, no. Great, great question. So I think we are conditioned to, to kind of go through, go to college, get a job, put your money in the stock market and let it ride. Real estate is really kind of a tangential thing that that is out there. And there’s, you know, there’s the Donald or now we call him President Trump that that is out there as a as a real estate investor that everybody knew of, and there’s, you know, a couple, a couple of real estate guys that have had kind of came to the limelight through various reality TV shows and that kind of stuff, but it’s not really something that’s taught or really focused on as we’re going through school. So it’s just that, you know, one of my main fears was, there wasn’t just a lot of education around it. And, you know when you think about real estate, you can buy $1,000 worth of stock, it’s very, very hard to buy $1,000 worth of real estate. Although you can now in the crowd sharing platform from those guys out there so that that’s a great way to kind of dip your toes in the market, if you will, and kind of get some experience in real estate. That was really the big fear was, it’s a pretty illiquid asset. And there’s a couple more zeros in it then than I was used to dealing with that. I also knew that at the end of the day, a real estate it’s very, very, very difficult for it to go to zero. There’s very few Enron’s of real estate out there. Because at the end of the day, there’s only so much dirt on the planet. And if you own real estate, you know, wherever that dirt is, it may be some ugly dirt. Right? So at some point in time, if you don’t sell, somebody is going to want that dirt. If you invest in stocks, that company could go to zero and then cease to exist. So no matter what, even if you don’t sell, you’re still going to have nothing.
Pancham: Right, exactly. Now that’s a great point. Moving on to the third question, can you share with us one investment that did not go as expected?
Scott: Absolutely. You know, and I’ll say to the listeners, if you’re if you’re ever talking to a sponsor or syndicators, they tell you that they’ve never had a deal go bad, run the other way, because they’re either super inexperienced, or they’re lying to your face. We have one that’s going right now. It’s a condo conversion in DC. And I was taking a row home and converting it to two condos. Back to go 13 months and offer about a 17% return. And right now we have sold one of the condos to our investors to include myself. I’m a personal investor in that one, have gotten 60% of our capital back and we still have one condo to sell and we’re going on about 16 months or about three months late, and the market has kind of come underneath our feet a little bit. We don’t believe that we’ll be able to hit that 17% return will probably still give it about a 10% return. But we just we, we don’t want to miss our projections. The only kind of silver lining in that. And this is something that your listeners should look at is we offer a sensitivity analysis for every deal. We look at the best, worst and most likely case scenarios, and we believe will still be within those constraints. It’s just not going as well as we thought it would.
Pancham: Right? You know, if you really look at it, who’s returning you 10% today taking stock market. Yes, you can get lucky but if you look at the long term perspective, 10 is still pretty good.
Scott: It is and I can’t say we’ve had deals go wrong. We’ve had deals with missed returns, but we have not date lost anybody’s money. So that’s so…when your listeners are talking to sponsors, if someone tells you that they’ve never lost somebody’s money that may be true. Preservation of capital is our number one thing. If you know anybody that’s investing in real estate, I am in a deal right now personally, in which the sponsor is 30 months late on a six month deal.
Pancham: Oh my god
Scott: It’s pretty ridiculous and we might get our initial capital out. There’s zero probability of getting any returns and we might get out of the deal halfway complete. We are just getting our initial capital back. So it does happen out there. I don’t say that to scare listeners, but I’m just like you can invest in a stock I invested in cryptocurrency and I did very little because I really didn’t know what I was doing but I decided to dabble. So the $3,000 that I invested in cryptocurrency is now worth 150 bucks.
Pancham: Yeah, I know I’ve lost some money over there as well. You do and you learn? All right. So what is one piece of advice would you give to people who are thinking of investing in the Main Street that is outside of the Wall Street?
Scott: Yeah, so the number one thing that I would tell folks is if you’re looking to join a syndication, and that’s what we do. A collection of private investors that look to…to buy a piece of real estate, then I would really focus on the team, focus on the sponsor team, not so much on the deal. New investors, really they get…they get focused on the returns. And that’s what they focus on. They’re digging into financials and everything else. But what they should be digging into is they should be digging into the team that’s going to be running the deal, because we’ve seen teams that were garbage, take a beautiful deal and run it into the trash. And I have seen teams that have taken an absolute crappy deal and make it perform fantastic because they’re an awesome team. So it’s always better to back the team than the backs of deal.
Pancham: Absolutely agree there. You know, I’ve seen those things as well. Great, great advice. Thank you Scott for sharing that, how can listeners reach you?
Scott: So I can be reached at my email which is Scott@spartan-investors.com or you can visit us on our website at www.Spartan-investors.com.
Pancham: Great. Thank you Scott for your time today and sharing your knowledge and your experience and talking about RV Parks.
Scott: Thanks, Pancham. Glad to be a part of it.
Pancham: If you want to know the top six reasons on why you should consider diversifying outside of the Wall Street then you are in the right place. I have written a free report for you. It goes into not just the top six reasons why investing in stocks for one case may not be the sound strategy. But also what are the alternatives? Get your free report today on the goldcollarinvestor.com/download. I repeat the goldcollarinvestor.com/download. I hope that you guys enjoyed that show and got some perspective on RV Parks. To be honest, I’m very intrigued by RV Parks. I have started educating myself about these. Who knows if we find the right opportunity, we may invest in one, I would end up by saying this. Keep an open mind and keep learning. If opportunity knocks on your door, you should be ready to recognize that it’s an opportunity. Thanks for listening. If you have questions, email me at email@example.com. That’s p as in Paul@goldcollarinvestor.com. This is Pancham signing off, until next time. Take care.
Thank you for listening to the Gold Collar Investor podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of Pancham Gupta, visit us at www.thegoldcollarinvestor.com and follow us on Facebook at the Gold Collar Investor. The information on this podcast our opinions as always, please consult your own financial team before investing