TGCI 36: Nursing homes (elderly people) vs COVID-19. How is the industry coping?

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Episode 36 – Nursing Homes (Elderly People) vs COVID 19 - How is the Industry Coping?



In today’s show, Pancham interviews Loe Hornbuckle, co-founder, Goodhorn Capital. Goodhorn Capital specializes in elegant planned care home communities.

The elderly have been the worst impacted due to the virus outbreak. And it is natural for us to be concerned about senior citizens who are currently living in these assisted facilities. In today’s show, you will first get an overview of this fast growing industry. Next, we share the various steps that assisted living facilities can take to keep the virus at bay.

Loe shares his own experience and reveals why the properties under his management have been able to buck the trend as far COVID fatalities are concerned.

If you have elderly parents whom you worried about, this is a show that you cannot afford to miss. 

Tune in now!

Pancham Gupta
TGCI 36 loe
Loe Hornbuckle
Show #36 - Thursday - quote art

Timestamped Shownotes:

  • 01:40 – Pancham welcomes Loe to the show
  • 02:50 – Loe’s background information
  • 03:37 – Which experience inspired Loe to invest in an assisted living facility?
  • 04:50 – What are the different categories in the assisted living space?
  • 07:33 – What is the difference between an assisted living facility and a nursing home?
  • 08:58 – What is the average age of a facility resident?
  • 10:30 – Steps that we can take to prevent the spread of COVID-19 in assisted living facilities
  • 14:10 – How extra hands can help contain the spread the virus
  • 15:05 – Are government-sponsored facilities more susceptible to the virus?
  • 16:38– Loe explains why great communication is key to properly managing an assisted living facility
  • 18:51 – What steps can a joint family with elders take to be adequately protected against the coronavirus?
  • 22:02 – What is the financial impact of COVID-19 on assisted living facilities?
  • 27:17 – Taking the Leap Round
  • 27:31– When was the first time you invested outside of Wall Street?
  • 27:50– What fears did you have to overcome when you first invested outside Wall Street?
  • 28:47 – What was one investment that did not go as expected?
  • 30:42 – What is one piece of advice that you would give to people who are thinking of investing in the Main Street?
  • 32:20 – Loe shares his contact information

3 Key Points:


  1. Different categories in the assisted living space
  2. Preventive steps that can be taken by assisted living facilities to fight the coronavirus
  3. Financial impact of COVID-19 on assisted living facilities

Get in Touch:

Read Full Transcript


Welcome to the Gold Collar Investor podcast with your host Pancham Gupta. This podcast is dedicated to helping the high paid professionals to break out of the Wall Street investments and create multiple income streams.


Here’s your host Pancham Gupta.


Hi, this is Russell Gray, co-host of The Real Estate guys radio show and you are listening to the Gold Collar Investor podcast.


Pancham: Welcome to the Gold Collar Investor podcast. This is your host Pancham. Oakland, Washington was the first city where the news of COVID-19 that started coming out. It was from a nursing home facility that cares for elderly people. Since then, many nursing home facilities around the country have been dealing with this outbreak. It is really sad to see what is happening. From a business point of view, there are very few businesses that are immune to COVID-19. Many people have reached out to find out how the multifamily business is getting impacted. I will do a show on that very soon. However, I was really curious to see how the assisted living facility business got impacted. Are you curious to find out what you can do to take care of elderly people or to find out how the assisted living industry is getting impacted because of COVID-19 and what steps they are taking to prevent it, or why this business is still positioned to grow significantly over the next decade? I have good news for you. I have invited my good friend Loe Hornbuckle who manages and owns assisted living facilities. Loe, welcome to the show.


Loe: Thank you for having me.


Pancham: Well, glad to have you here and you know talk about your assisted living facility background and your, you know, overall experience. So are you ready to fire up my listeners break our Wall Street investments?


Loe: Absolutely. You know, it’s no secret. You know, I’ve talked about this many times. But ultimately, I’m a big proponent in what I see is conscious capitalism. And for me, that means investing in things that will not only make a good return, but do good for the people that you help. And I can’t think of a better topic than assisted living in memory care, an opportunity to provide a better product or service for people that are desperately in need of it. So I’m very excited about getting your listeners out of Wall Street and paper assets and into, you know, real assets that help people. 


Pancham: Great. Well, thank you. So, Loe, let’s start with a bit of your background. What are assisted living facilities and how you actually got into this business?


Loe: Yeah, thanks. My background is probably a little similar to yourself and some of your listeners. You know, I worked for a company for 10 or 11 years. Started off at 20 years old working in a car dealership. I know most of your listeners probably, you know were in tech or something along those lines. I was a car dealer and, you know, made good money and was successful and learned a lot about marketing and sales and being in a service business. And, you know, those lessons were very valuable to me, and really left the dealership probably with the understanding that I was probably going to start a multifamily company and invest in apartments. I even took a job working in an apartment complex that was 400 units to kind of, you know, get my managerial feet wet, and ultimately just didn’t resonate with the business. It wasn’t something that made me happy. It didn’t fulfill me as a person. And around that time, my father, sadly back in 2014, passed away and really had a terrible experience with the hospice company that he was with. And you know, the statute of limitations in Louisiana for civil stuff against the hospice company is one year. And so I spent about a year going back and forth trying to decide if I was going to sue the hospice company for how they took care. And around that time, right around the time the statute of limitations ran out. I heard about this opportunity to invest in residential assisted living, and assisted living as an industry. I don’t want to say that I went into the business because what happened to my dad, but when I looked into the business, all the emotions, all the feelings that I experienced, I realized that this was what I was supposed to do. And I just got very lucky. I’m kind of one of those people that kind of stumbled into my calling. And it was an opportunity to honor my father and to make sure that other families don’t have to go through the experience that that our family did.


Pancham: Wow. I think you found your calling. You said it’s a great background. And so you chose the assisted living facility. Can you break it down? Like what is it for our listeners who don’t know what assisted living facility is or what a memory care is?


Loe: Yeah, great question. So I think sometimes, the terminology we see in the media is senior housing, right? So if you read a Wall Street Journal article or New York Times article, many talk about senior housing. So senior housing essentially is a bunch of different various types of real estate and types of businesses all under one roof. So senior housing is basically anything that has age restricted, that’s usually targeted for older folks. Sometimes it’s 55. And up, sometimes it’s 62. And up. So independent living or active adults is in the same umbrella as senior housing. And that’s essentially apartments for older people. So that maybe 55 and up 62 and up it’s really not altogether different from your background. The difference would just be that, you know, maybe there’s a premium on first floor apartments or there’s going to be cottages on the campus, you know that are small houses.  They’ll have sort of a very strong amenities play. So you might have tennis, you know, golf, swimming pool, gyms, you know, common areas, even a dining room that’s dedicated to the campus, but on those campuses, no care is provided by the facility. It’s just apartments for seniors. When you get into the situation where someone needs assistance, there’s something called activities of daily living. They do the things that you or I or someone else that fully capable of taking care of themselves do every day. It’s making meals, taking out the trash, you know, going to the restroom, you know, administering your own medication, you know, all the things that are necessary to go on throughout the day. When someone needs assistance with ADLs…activities of daily living, they can choose to go into assisted living, which allows them to get all the same benefits of active adult or independent living, but now there’s a care element provided. So now there’s caregivers, there’s nurses, sometimes there’s medical oversight in the form of a medical director. And essentially, it is designed to be a hybrid. So if you think about independent living…it is all hospitality, right? The apartment business is all hospitality. Assisted Living is a combination of hospitality and healthcare. Okay, there’s a healthcare component. Now sort of next door to assisted living, you’d have dementia care or memory care and that is where someone is not cognitively aware necessarily. So they have dementia. Perhaps have problems with their memory. Very commonly, maybe they have impulse control issues. They may or may not have any physical ailments. Meaning they could be able to walk and, and function physically in the same way as anyone else. But because of their impulse control, because of their lack of ability to form new memories, they present a different set of challenges for assistance with ADLs. So for example, you might have a facility that has cleaning products that are locked up so that someone doesn’t get into the cleaning products thinking that there’s something else to prevent like a poisoning situation. So those two things are very similar. That’s the primary business that I’m in. What a lot of people think of when they think of assisted living is a nursing home. So a nursing home is similar to assisted living. But if we remember that independent living is on the hospitality side, skilled nursing is all on the healthcare side. So it’s more like a hospital with a better paint job. And so these are the very, very sick clients that certainly could be in a hospital but don’t want to take up a hospital bed because they’re going to be there for 2, 3, 4 years. And so it’s all under the same umbrella of senior housing. I think one thing that’s really important for your listeners to understand is when they see like an article in Wall Street Journal about senior housing, there really aren’t any trends in the industry of senior housing. And the reason why is because the average age between independent living and assisted living might be a 10 or 20 year gap. And so Independent living sort of feeds into assisted living and oftentimes, assisted living feeds into skilled nursing. So really, they’re more like upstream-downstream providers, more so than any one industry class, right? And so a lot of times when you read about it in sort of mainstream news or mainstream media, they’re talking about it as though it’s all one class and it’s really not. And so you got to be careful when you read that type of stuff. Because sometimes, you’ll see trends in the industry that don’t really actually make any sense inside of each individual type of senior housing.


Pancham: Got it? Got it. No, thank you for explaining all of that. Question. For your portfolio that you have, what’s the average age?,


Loe: Yeah, so it’s around 87. Okay, it’s around 87 years old. It is the typical age for assisted living. It is pretty standard nationally. And that’s a pretty standard number. Generally going to see 85 to 87. It is kind of being the standard age for assisted living. And what makes that interesting is there’s a lot of talk and sort of demographics about baby boomers. Well, the oldest baby boomer was born in 1946. And so they can be no more than 74 years old. So the average agent assisted living is 87. So you’ve really got about 13 years before the first wave of the baby boomers on average are really interacting with assisted living and memory care and skilled nursing. Now on the independent living, the active adult side, there are tons of baby boomers that are starting to interact with…hey, I want to live on this golf course. You know, maybe I want to go down to Margaritaville which is a Jimmy Buffett themed thing down in Florida. So there’s plenty of baby boomers starting to interact with that product class, but in terms of assisted living, memory, care, nursing, that trend hasn’t hit yet. And that’s one of the reasons why the business is so exciting. It’s a great business now, but then the demographic numbers get very, very compelling and that, you know, 10 to 15 to 20 year timeline…


Pancham: Right? No, it’s absolutely great. I think it’s a great, great opportunity. So, you know, let’s talk about the news that you were talking about, right? The stats and all that. And with this COVID-19 situation, right, like when it’s first started to show up in the United States, it was in Washington State, right? And there was this nursing home again, I don’t know whether that was a senior, like a memory care facility or what was the time within a senior nursing home, and a lot of people starting to fall sick and they passed away. And, and since then, you’ve heard many, many news around this. So what are you seeing in your facilities and what steps have you taken to cope up with you know, this COVID-19 situation?


Loe: Sure thing. So what happened in Kirkland was really just a precursor for what’s going to happen. So it was Kirkland. Washington is where that happened. It was just outside the Seattle area. So that was a nursing home, a skilled nursing facility. And so a couple things to understand. Right now, the last estimate I saw was there were about 16,000 deaths in various long term care facilities in the United States. Some of those count toward the official count that we have now some don’t. Right now, the US is mostly counting hospital deaths. And a big portion of people that passed away in long term care, never go to the hospital. They stay in the facility and they pass there. My experience has been only about 10% of my clients. When they pass away, they passed away in a hospital, the vast majority of them passed away in their home which is their room in the assisted living facility. The thing to understand is one of the things that we’ve seen in the data is really starting to become very clear about this. We focus on a specific type of assisted living and a specific type of memory care. So just like in the apartment space, you could have class A or Class B might have sort of boutique style. We focused on a boutique style of assisted living and memory care. So our largest facility has no more than 16 beds. 


Pancham: Oh, wow. 


Loe: So which compared to the average facility might have 100 beds or 200 beds. So the first thing to think about is if we all agree that COVID-19 is very, very deadly to the elder population. The number one goal of any facility is to not let it come through the front door. Because once you start having an outbreak inside a facility, then it’s very easy to see, you know, a quarter or a half of the people inside the facility contract it and a lot of those, a lot of those cases are fatal, and that type of population. So if you think about the average 100-bed facility, they may have 100 employees. So if you’re trying to protect the elderly and maybe you don’t allow visitors from the outside, but your caregivers are out in the community, right? Your food comes from the community, your caregivers from the community, your physicians, your vendors, like home health, hospice, they’re all out in the community. If this virus is spreading in the community, if you have 100 employees, than every day you have 100 chances for someone to walk in the front door, and to infect your staff or your residents. And once that happens very bad. Our model is that a typical building for us might have six or eight employees or no more than 15 or 16 employees. So our ratios of opportunity for transmission are much smaller. So just imagine if you have a building with 100 people or a building with 16, you might have five times the likelihood of it coming into the front door of a big building than you would a small facility. And so that’s the number one thing is our model is very, very well constructed to deal with. Not only COVID-19 but seasonal flu. You know, there was a period of time where coronavirus was kind of in the news and yet a lot of cruise ships coming down with that. There were outbreaks in Dallas where our operation is all around us, but we were fortunate. We didn’t have any outbreaks of that. Either our model isn’t perfect. It’s not immune from having someone catch the virus, but the odds are much smaller. So one of the first things we did is we designed a model that we think is going to be more conducive in these types of situations. The second thing is that our facilities have really good care ratios. So one of the things you really want to look at is if you’ve got a big building where one caregiver or one nurse aide is responsible for 10 people or 12 people during the day and maybe 20 people at night, you know. That’s got problems for in and of itself, but in terms of an outbreak, it makes it very difficult to successfully isolate a patient, maybe that patient has dementia, you know. How do you keep them from wandering? You know, so the one of the best ways to do that is to have a lot of extra set of hands. So our typical facility during the day will have a one to four to one to six ratio about double or triple what you see in a big building. And then at night is about a one to eight ratio which is in some cases, double or triple what you see in a big building. The other big thing and one of the reasons why you’re going to see a lot of problems with nursing homes is about 70% of nursing home money comes from Medicaid, meaning it’s government pay. Now we do all private pay, meaning all the clients pay themselves or their families pay out of pocket. But one of the things you see in government sponsored pay programs is they’re almost always two people in a room, sometimes three people in a room. So you can imagine if your roommate gets COVID, and you live eight feet away with a little thin curtain between the two of you, and the staff are in there all the time trying to take care of them or whatever, then it’s very difficult to socially distance in a setting like that. So one of the other things that our model is good about is almost our new build products, almost all of our retrofitted product, have private bedrooms. So it’s possible for someone to isolate themselves and still be in the community. And then of course, when you have private bathrooms, it’s even more powerful. And, you know, we have a really, really strong nursing program at our company. We have two nurses, that workforce and we have 40 residents in Dallas. So we have a one to 20 nursing ratio that might be one to 81 to 100. In in most big buildings. So just in general, our model is very well built to effectively do everything possible to neutralize COVID coming into the house and when it does come into the house, being able to isolate that resident follow proper protocol, so that hopefully other residents don’t get infected and it doesn’t become an outbreak.


Pancham: Got it? Got it. So do you use any technology platforms to communicate with their residents? Given specially now?


Loe: Yeah, great question. So we’re one of the only healthcare companies that I know of actually our motto is great care, great food, great communication. And we put communication in there for a reason because I’m a big believer in communication and I think that Western medicine in particular doesn’t do a very good job of communicating. You know, even something as simple as you go to the doctor. They say go to waiting room one. You sit there for 45 minutes, you don’t know where you’re at in the process, you get up you go, hey, am I next? What’s going on? There’s just a lack of communication. So that what we did was we decided nationally in a state level visitations were banned meaning that it was not a medically necessary visit. It wasn’t allowed to happen. So we did utilize technology, things like FaceTime, things like telemedicine, telemedicine allows our doctor to oversee the patient’s medical needs without having to physically come into the building, which reduces the risk of transmission. But the most important thing technology does is allows families to stay in touch with the resident inside, especially when you’re dealing with a situation like dementia or other cognitive impairments, you know, just the ability for a family to be able to, you know, put eyes on them and see a video see a FaceTime situation. So one thing our company did that I don’t think a lot of companies are doing is we have a mandatory one week touch process, meaning that at least once a week, our staff calls each family member to update them about the resident. And we do that oftentimes…the more frequently anyway, but at least once a week, they know what’s going on. Because if you’re accustomed to visiting two, three times a week, and now the best you can do is have the team, you know, take mom in her wheelchair and wheel her up to the window and you can kind of wave at each other and maybe talk on the phone, it’s just not the same. And so getting those proactive updates getting updates that happen regardless whether or not something negative or positive happened, it goes a long way in letting families know that we care about them being informed, but also to lets us know that we certainly understand it’s very difficult to have your loved one assisted living facility or in a memory care facility wall, this pandemic is happening. It’s a very difficult situation for everybody involved and we think the best solution for that is just open honest and transparent communication.


Pancham: Got it? Got it. So you know, I tell you like I’m originally from India, I came here to do my master’s I grew up in India. So over there, there are still a lot of lot of families where the parents and the grown up kids, they all stay in one place. Home, right? And that is also even, I see that even in the US kind of prevalent within the community. So if people who are caring for their, you know, elderly parents who are home, given COVID-19, what suggestions would you have for them?


Loe: Yeah, that’s a great question. I think everybody that’s going to have direct and personal contact with someone that’s vulnerable, whether they’re elderly or immune-compromised, or if they’re, you know, diabetic or obese or high blood pressure or heart condition, they need to realize that, you know, these 98% survival rate numbers don’t apply to that person, their survival rate, maybe 90% or 85%, or 80%. So you have to take that very seriously. So for example, if you’ve got a family member, that’s a primary caregiver of someone that that’s at home, then that person could be the vector. So while they may be the most likely to, you know, be on the you know, they’re 99.9% chance of survival. They could have symptomatically are pre symptomatically bringing into the home. So one of the best piece of advice is for that person, be very cautious, right? So they need to be wearing masks and public, you know, taking that very seriously, they need to limit the amount of time they go into the public. So for example, if you need to order food, you’re probably better off ordering food delivered and personally going to the grocery store. Just things like that kind of go a long way. But the other thing is, you know, really be monitoring your local health authority as far as what’s going on in your community. Because there are times when, you know, if you were in New York, you know, a few weeks ago, you wouldn’t want to be outside at all, because your chance of contracting are so high. So a lot of it is really just about monitoring the situation. And if you think about it, if possible, and in some cases it’s possible, if you could you dig a moat and you pull the bridge up and nobody comes in or nobody goes out because if you can do that, you can kind of keep the virus from coming to the front door. You know, obviously you know, contacting your physician to see if they have tele-health capabilities. You know, it doesn’t have to be something fancy. Sometimes just FaceTime with a doctor can work because one of the other things is you can see situations where someone has real health problems that health, you know, starts to decline and the fear of going to the doctor, the fear of going to the hospital prevents someone from getting out when in fact that maybe they should so again, utilize technology where you can try to make sure that you’re getting the best medical care while at the same time reducing physical presence by someone that could be a vector and then transmitted the virus


Pancham: Got it. Thanks for sharing that. So how do you see this business getting impacted? You know, this is so new. Coronavirus situation. Right? COVID-19 people are still reacting versus proactively solving the problem. So what impact do you see in your industry going forward? Would it increase the overall expenses as far as the Operations go?


Loe: Yeah. So I think there’s probably two different ways to answer that question. It absolutely is going to impact the business in general, I think you’re going to see pressure on two fronts. I think there’s going to be a tremendous amount of increase in expenses. And those expenses are going to be additional labor, right? Because if we’re asking somebody to do a potentially more dangerous job, then there’s probably going to be additional pay there. You’re also going to see higher expenditures on things like personal protective equipment, right? So you’re going to see kind of those things, the best companies, you’re going to probably hire more staff, more people to be prepared when something were to happen. So definitely going to have pressure on the expense side. If we separate big box assisted living and skilled nursing from the boutique model that I’m talking about, I can answer that question a little differently. I think the big box facilities are absolutely going to see revenue pressure. And the reason I think that is because in Dallas, for example, our judge and I disagree with how he did this. He stood in front of a camera early on in the pandemic and he said, hey, if you have the opportunity, you should pull your mom or dad out of nursing or bring them home if you can. He did. And that was right when we had a bad outbreak in Dallas and a couple of nursing homes, and one of them was just a couple of miles away from basically the center where my company is located. So I think there’s going to be a lot of people that look to not have mom or dad or their spouse go into these big buildings, because they’re just not conducive for this. But ultimately, prior to the pandemic, there was good data that said small facilities with reduced falls…small facilities do a better job with, you know, helping someone with dementia or with memory loss. That data was already out there. So I think now what’s going to happen to pivot into the boutique model, companies like mine and similar companies, I think you’re going to have a tremendous opportunity to grow and expand. If you’re not capable of taking care of mom or dad at home, whether you don’t have the right physical layout, you don’t have the time you don’t have the money because if you were to hire a 24 hour caregiver, in a lot of places, that’s going to cost 10, 12,  $15,000 a month. Right. The average person really just can’t afford that. So you know, if you want to move into a shared care environment that might cost 5000 or 6000, which is just a fraction of the other number, and your choices are a small facility that has proven to weather, this type of situation better plus better communication, better food, reduced falls. Or you can go to kind of the big box facility, it’s going to make the decision a lot easier. Right now, in my business. There’s this transition, where I think consumers are starting to realize that if a place has a really fancy gym, and a really nice chandelier, none of that matters. What matters is the caregivers, the communication, the food, you know, the love and care that that person is going to receive. And I think people are starting to get wise to the fact that gyms and chandelier ears are kind of a smokescreen, and a lot of the quality promises made by big buildings they simply cannot live up to unless they improve their direct care ratios, their physical plants are challenging, you know, even just something as simple as, and one of my buildings. It’s virtually impossible to for a carrier to be more than 50 feet away from a resonant and a big building. It’s very easy to be 150 yards away. And so, you know, if somebody’s got an alarm on their bed, and the alarm indicates they’re about to fall, you’re not going to get there in time if you’re 150 yards away. And so I think in general, what’s going to happen is it’s going to cause our industry to rethink sizing. And in my particular business, smaller is better, right? So we always hear bigger is better. But that’s not true in this case. And I think a lot of people are going to migrate to a more boutique model. And so it’s going to speed up that industry trend. It was already trending that way in the first place. But now that you have this, you know if if one facility gives you a 20% lesser chance of getting a deadly virus, that’s a pretty big difference. Now if you say we can reduce your risk by 5x, that’s a pretty compelling story. And I think That’s a lot of where the numbers are going to land is I think you’re probably going to see that, especially in the early going, you’ve got, you know, maybe a one out of five. So one out of four chance of getting a virus versus a big building which is a huge improvement.


Pancham: Got it? Got it. No, that’s great. So I actually really want to get into the business model here, but we don’t have time. I think I would get you back on the show, to just discuss like, once you have more clarity, even like maybe after a couple of months and discuss the expense ratios, like what kind of expense ratios you see what kind of returns you see and you know, all that stuff, you know, so we’ll be back after this message. If you want to know the top six reasons on why you should consider diversifying outside of the Wall Street, then you are in the right place. I have written a free report for you. It goes into not just the top six reasons why investing in stocks for one case may not be the sound strategy, but also what are the alternatives. Get your free report today on, I repeat All right. Now let’s move on to the next section of the show which I call taking the leap. I asked these four questions to every guest on my show. My first question for you is when was the first time you invested outside of Wall Street?


Loe: So the first time I invested outside of Wall Street was 2007. I bought a house to flip and I finished the roof flip right in 2008. So you can imagine it probably went really, really terribly because it did.


Pancham: Okay. All right. So the next question is, what fears did you have to overcome when you first invested outside of Wall Street where you bought this flip?


Loe: So for me, I’ve never really been other than, you know, when my company you know, said, hey, we’ll give you a 401k match or something. I’ve never really been a proponent of paper assets. For whatever reason I didn’t have any fears to overcome as it relates to Wall Street. I think the biggest fears I had to overcome or you know, the fear of failure and the fear of unknown because, you know, in real estate, it’s not complicated, but it’s very easy to make mistakes or to have things happen that you didn’t foresee today. I’ve never seen anybody do a construction budget that ever came in below budget. So I’ve never had that happen. So one day maybe but ultimately, there’s things like that, that you have to just kind of learn to be okay with you know, we’re going to go over our construction budget, that’s just going to happen every time.


Pancham: Yeah, we’ve never had that either. So alright, so my third question is, can you share with us one investment that did not go as expected.


Loe: I think so. You know, I’ll tell you a different story. We kind of told that one I invested in a truck company, I started I helped a guy start a trucking company that failed miserably. What I learned from that situation was just because something’s a good business, if you don’t understand it, if you’re not passionate about it, if you don’t, if you don’t know it really well, you’re probably not going to be successful in it, you know? So, for me, I really focused on trying to invest in things that I that I understand either as a consumer myself or because I am in a social circle of people that understand it, I’m constantly talking about it, right. So I like investments that I understand on an intellectual level prior to making the investment so never have been involved in the trucking business. And so, you know, I just don’t I don’t know who to call. I don’t know what’s normal, and so consequently, it didn’t go well.


Pancham: So where you passively invested in that one?


Loe: I’m sure it was probably an accidental illegal syndication. So I was probably supposed to be back. But I was obviously giving advice. So essentially, boy, this sounds dumb. I hired a guy off Craigslist, and, you know, vetted him out, did all that stuff. And he was the trucker. And ultimately, I bought him a vehicle. And then we had a rev share agreement on how we were going to split things up. But, you know, you’re putting so many miles on these vehicles and you’re destroying them, right, because you’re hauling all this really heavy stuff and these difficult conditions, you were just getting eaten alive by their fuel costs or maintenance or a truck breaking down or something along those lines. So yeah, it just definitely wasn’t definitely wasn’t for me. 


Pancham: Got it. No fuel cost probably now. Yeah, given where the gas prices are. All right, so my last question for you, what is one piece of advice would you give to people who are thinking of investing in Main Street that is outside of Wall Street?


Loe: Yeah. So I think that’s an easy one for me. And the simple thing is this. When you give money and this is not a knock on anybody, when you give money to the big banks, when you give money to Wall Street, you know, where does it end up? Where does it go? And it ends up going to a lot of things that most people would not want their money to go to. You know, it funds wars, it funds overthrowing governments, it funds tobacco, it funds all kinds of stuff that people really wouldn’t want to do. What I love about investing in mainstream is you can choose, you know. Where you want your money to go, you know. Do you want to invest in you want to invest in mainstream or you can say, hey, I’m investing in something. And the thing I’m investing in is going to make sure that someone over 50% less than if they were a competitor. That’s a really cool thing to do. You know, I’m going to invest in something that’s going to help somebody with dementia, have less depression, have less anxiety. So you know, that to me is the powerful thing because there are certainly things I don’t want my money invested in, you know. I don’t want to arm child soldiers. And sometimes when you find these big banks, they turn around and use that money to do all kinds of crazy stuff that none of us would ever really endorse. So I’m a huge fan of investing for a cause, you know. Whatever that cause may be, you know invest in something that you know you can make a good return but also help people in the process.


Pancham: Got it. Got it. So that was quite deep. Alright, great. Thank you for your time today how can listeners reach you if they want to connect with you find out more about your company.


Loe: Yeah, absolutely. So we have taken the liberty to put together a book in a PDF format. So they want to learn more about you know, our model of care that they can get that they just somebody to visit So There’ll be an opportunity to put your name and email address we’ll give you a free copy of the PDF. If somebody does want to learn more about investing in senior housing and doing conscious capitalism with us they can send an email to Happy to have a introductory call with you and help you on this process


Pancham: Great, no. We will put all of that information in the show notes. Well thank you for your time though.


Loe: Man, really appreciate you having me and I’m very excited to watch you and your partner, Mr. Gupta and all the all the awesome stuff you guys are doing so keep kicking butt guys. Thank you man. Thank you absolutely.


Pancham:I hope you got some nuggets from the show and see how the assisted living business is getting impacted because of COVID-19 and what they’re doing about it. Thanks for listening. If you have questions email me at That’s This is Pancham signing off. Until next time, take care.


Loe: Thank you for listening to the gold color investor podcast. If you love what you’ve heard and you want more of Pancham Gupta, visit us at and follow us on Facebook at The Gold Dollar Investor. The information on this podcast are opinions as always, please consult your own financial team before investing.


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